Hey all...even though I didn't get my GT coupe in the driveway yet, I'm already shopping around for snow tires. It occured to me that the G6 4cyl and V6 have 16x7" steel wheels standard. So if I can get ahold of 4 of those, I don't even need to buy new snow tires, I can reuse my ones from last season and just have them remounted on the proper wheel.

My two questions are:

(A) the GT coupe and I4/V6 sedans and my GT coupe all use the same brake components right? In other words, will the 16x7 wheel fit properly on my car and leave sufficient clearance for the brakes?

(B) if so, where can I find CHEAP 16x7 steel wheels? tirerack and discount tire both have no steel wheels available. I suppose I could just order them from pontiac, but I'd pay out the arse (probably over $100 a wheel, which is insanity). I checked car-part.com to try and find a wrecked G6 with steels, but that too cannot be found...

Any thoughts?

EBAY! (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-PONTIAC-G6-16-OEM-WHEELS-TIRES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43956QQitemZ80080 62594QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

Been there, done that. Nothing to be found. Plus shipping is likely to kill me. :(

Hey all...even though I didn't get my GT coupe in the driveway yet, I'm already shopping around for snow tires. It occured to me that the G6 4cyl and V6 have 16x7" steel wheels standard. So if I can get ahold of 4 of those, I don't even need to buy new snow tires, I can reuse my ones from last season and just have them remounted on the proper wheel.

My two questions are:

(A) the GT coupe and I4/V6 sedans and my GT coupe all use the same brake components right? In other words, will the 16x7 wheel fit properly on my car and leave sufficient clearance for the brakes?

(B) if so, where can I find CHEAP 16x7 steel wheels? tirerack and discount tire both have no steel wheels available. I suppose I could just order them from pontiac, but I'd pay out the arse (probably over $100 a wheel, which is insanity). I checked car-part.com to try and find a wrecked G6 with steels, but that too cannot be found...

Any thoughts?The non-GT/GTP cars have ~10.8" front brakes. The GT/GTPs have ~11.7" front brakes. So there are differences.

However, tirerack's winter package system indicates that 16" will fit on GT models.

Unfortunately, I've been told by many that even though the 16x7's will attach to the hubs, I CANNOT safely use them on the GT because of the 3% difference in outer diameter between the 17 and 16 wheels. Supposedly anything more then 1% will F up the computers and cause systems such as ABS and traction control to either malfunction or function improperly.

I'm REALLY pissed to say the least, as I have practically brand new snow tires from last year that would easily fit the 16x7's, but now i can't use them. And there are no good snow tires available in 17".

Unfortunately, I've been told by many that even though the 16x7's will attach to the hubs, I CANNOT safely use them on the GT because of the 3% difference in outer diameter between the 17 and 16 wheels. Supposedly anything more then 1% will F up the computers and cause systems such as ABS and traction control to either malfunction or function improperly.

I'm REALLY pissed to say the least, as I have practically brand new snow tires from last year that would easily fit the 16x7's, but now i can't use them. And there are no good snow tires available in 17".
You've been told wrong.

First, it's not the wheel size that matters, it's the tire size (rolling diameter). Find the appropriate tire size (probably 225/55R16) that is close to the same height, and you're good to go.

However, there are plenty of good snow tires in 17"...

You've been told wrong.

First, it's not the wheel size that matters, it's the tire size (rolling diameter). Find the appropriate tire size (probably 225/55R16) that is close to the same height, and you're good to go.

However, there are plenty of good snow tires in 17"...

They said nothing of the wheel size. The outer diameter of the tire has a 3% difference. My snows are 205-55-16.

They said nothing of the wheel size. The outer diameter of the tire has a 3% difference. My snows are 205-55-16.
Gotcha. in the last post your said "wheel diameter". I now see in your first post "I can reuse my ones from last season and just have them remounted on the proper wheel."

You're right then there, those would be too small.

But there are good 17" snows.

Here's the thing. My 16's I have from the Vibe are Green Diamond Tires. They have to be the MOST phenomenal winter tires I've ever driven on. They did amazing last winter...they're the only tire I'll buy. It's too late in the season, however, for me to get a new set of Green Diamonds...they're cleaned out...and besides, the only 17" tire they even make is 235/55/17. Not sure if that would be adequate.

Regardless. My question is this. I'm determined to get one more season out of the ones I have. Can they safely be put on the car if I discipline myself to keep to low speeds? The majority of my driving is stop and go anyway. Rarely do road trips in the winter months. I just have a long drive to work and can't even begin to imagine having to do it without snow tires. So how much of a risk IS it to use these tires for one season?

Here's the thing. My 16's I have from the Vibe are Green Diamond Tires. They have to be the MOST phenomenal winter tires I've ever driven on. They did amazing last winter...they're the only tire I'll buy. It's too late in the season, however, for me to get a new set of Green Diamonds...they're cleaned out...and besides, the only 17" tire they even make is 235/55/17. Not sure if that would be adequate.

Regardless. My question is this. I'm determined to get one more season out of the ones I have. Can they safely be put on the car if I discipline myself to keep to low speeds? The majority of my driving is stop and go anyway. Rarely do road trips in the winter months. I just have a long drive to work and can't even begin to imagine having to do it without snow tires. So how much of a risk IS it to use these tires for one season?
There's no way to determine risk. But if 1" difference does cause problems, what it will do is "confuse" your abs and traction control system, which could cause you more harm than good. Those things acting up could actually induce problems.

IMHO, it's not worth it. If you are that worried that you need snow tires, you need to get the right size snow tires to be effective. Green Diamond or not, the wrong size of snow tires could make them utterly useless if your abs cycles when it's not needed or does not cycle at all when needed, etc.

If you really need snow tires that badly maybe your next car should be AWD?

If you really need snow tires that badly maybe your next car should be AWD?

I don't need AWD.

Have you ever TRIED to drive in the snow on continentals?

If you really need snow tires that badly maybe your next car should be AWD?
i don't believe that's a fair comment. Some people just like the added safety of being able to drive 50mph to work rather than drive 25mph, or to climb a hill rather than skid at it's base. The oem tires are not very good in the snow, so if you are going to replace them, why not replace them with snow tires, as he is trying to do.

Perhaps the question is, have you ever driven in snowy winter weather on good snow tires? If you had, you'd 1) not ask that question above, and 2) never gone back to all-season tires for winter again...

At the risk of exposing my ignorance on the particulars of the G6 traction and ABS systems:
Every system I've ever seen for traction used the DIFFERENCE in wheel speed between two wheels rather than the absolute speed in determining whether or not to activate and compensate.
If that holds true for the G6, the wheel and tire combo size shouldn't affect the proper operation.
If a 23 inch diameter tire on the left side is spinning 600 rpm while a 23 inch diameter tire on the right side is spinning 250 rpm, it would seem the response by the TC system would be the same as if we were talking 24 inch tires PROVIDED the SAME SIZE TIRE on EACH SIDE.
Am I missing soemthing important here?

RKH, I tend to agree with you. The speedo and odometer will not read correct, the display for oil change, fuel milage, miles to empty ect will all read wrong to some degree.

At the risk of exposing my ignorance on the particulars of the G6 traction and ABS systems:
Every system I've ever seen for traction used the DIFFERENCE in wheel speed between two wheels rather than the absolute speed in determining whether or not to activate and compensate.
If that holds true for the G6, the wheel and tire combo size shouldn't affect the proper operation.
If a 23 inch diameter tire on the left side is spinning 600 rpm while a 23 inch diameter tire on the right side is spinning 250 rpm, it would seem the response by the TC system would be the same as if we were talking 24 inch tires PROVIDED the SAME SIZE TIRE on EACH SIDE.
Am I missing soemthing important here?
ABS systems, all the ones I know of, are calibrated to the vehicle tire size. They feature a speed sensor which measures the revolutions per mile. A larger tire will transmit a slower speed reading than true, where a smaller tire will do the opposite. From what I understand, this is what causes problems. I can't explain exactly why, as I do not know, but I can assure you that I know of people who have, and have encountered myself, the need to switch back to appropriate sized tires because of traction and abs problems with smaller or larger tires. Perhaps the wheel sensors are "compared" to other sensors, and if one sensor is correct and the other is not, that would turn on the traction or abs system prematurely, or too late, depending on the difference.

I do know that modern traction control systems no longer just compare one wheel to the other.

Unfortunately, I've been told by many that even though the 16x7's will attach to the hubs, I CANNOT safely use them on the GT because of the 3% difference in outer diameter between the 17 and 16 wheels. Supposedly anything more then 1% will F up the computers and cause systems such as ABS and traction control to either malfunction or function improperly.

I'm REALLY pissed to say the least, as I have practically brand new snow tires from last year that would easily fit the 16x7's, but now i can't use them. And there are no good snow tires available in 17".

I don't know that this is true. Locally, there are but a few G6's on the road. One that I notice (and envy) is a silver one just like mine. It's the standard (non GT) with the regular moonroof just like mine, but it has the 17" chromed wheels. The owner said the dealer swapped them from another G on the lot for a nominal fee. I know, dealers have done stupid things before, but if swapping to a 17" wheel on a car that is "programmed" for 16's doesn't hurt anything, I have to wonder if going the other way (down to a 16) won't hurt anything either.

And if it indeed screws up so much, and can cause all the harm, how are aftermarket wheel manufacturers making so much $$$$?

I don't know that this is true. Locally, there are but a few G6's on the road. One that I notice (and envy) is a silver one just like mine. It's the standard (non GT) with the regular moonroof just like mine, but it has the 17" chromed wheels. The owner said the dealer swapped them from another G on the lot for a nominal fee. I know, dealers have done stupid things before, but if swapping to a 17" wheel on a car that is "programmed" for 16's doesn't hurt anything, I have to wonder if going the other way (down to a 16) won't hurt anything either.

And if it indeed screws up so much, and can cause all the harm, how are aftermarket wheel manufacturers making so much $$$$?
Again, it's NOT the wheels size that matters, it's the TIRE size. The 17" stock wheels have lower profile tires on them, so the overall height of the tire, and the subsequent revolutions per mile, are the same between the 16" wheels/tires and the 17" wheels/tires. The 4 cyl, 6cyl, and GT are programmed for ~26" tall tires. The GTP is programmed for ~27" tall tires. The tires he want's to put on are 25" tall tires. They're too short.

Ok, I gotcha. I understood that, but didn't make it clear (and understand about his particular tire size).

For those that are interested, there are calculators available that with the right data, can tell you the speedo difference to expect with varying size tires.

I did a calculation to tell the difference in the Conti 17's that are on the chromed wheels and the Tiger Paws that are on the 16" painted steels (mine, anyway) and the difference is less than 1 mph. The Paws come in around 70.6 at 2000 rpm with the Contis at 69.9, I think it was.

Safe enough for me, and the chrome clads with the Contis should be here within a week :)

The tires he want's to put on are 25" tall tires. They're too short.

Let me ask you this then.

I can get green diamonds in a 215/60R16 size tire. According to one of the online tire size calculators I used, this is only a 1.2% difference in overall size (Speedo with non-stock tire is 1.2% too slow. When the speedo reads 60mph, I'm actually going 60.7mph.) Is that a small enough margin of error, or do I still need to try to find a size closer to stock?

EDIT: I just noticed that the G6 sedans with 16" tires from the factory come with 215/60/16 tires. So if I'm not an idiot here, then I should safely be able to do this, no?

BTW, this is a great tire-size calcualtor right here: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Thanks for that link - I'd found that years ago and lost it. I'm no tire expert, but I think (without looking up the numbers on that Green Diamond tire) that the tire is close enough.

The measurements it gives for specified tire sizes (I compared the stock 16s to the stock 17s to the mfg specs) seems to be dead on.

Good luck with whatever you do - I can sympathize with you, too. While I don't live in a "real" snow area, I have experienced driving on snow and ice both, with standard tires. One vehicle totaled, and one near miss that cost me a pair of underwear (and two new tires when the skidding thru the median broke the beads and ruined the sidewalls). I now try to stay home on snow days :D

Thanks for that link - I'd found that years ago and lost it. I'm no tire expert, but I think (without looking up the numbers on that Green Diamond tire) that the tire is close enough.

The measurements it gives for specified tire sizes (I compared the stock 16s to the stock 17s to the mfg specs) seems to be dead on.

Good luck with whatever you do - I can sympathize with you, too. While I don't live in a "real" snow area, I have experienced driving on snow and ice both, with standard tires. One vehicle totaled, and one near miss that cost me a pair of underwear (and two new tires when the skidding thru the median broke the beads and ruined the sidewalls). I now try to stay home on snow days :D
Tire calculators are nice, but if the manufacturers specs are available, I'd use those over a third party calculator.

The stock G6 4c, 6c, and GT tires are 25.9" to 26.1" tall (215/60R16 uniroyals and 225/50R17s continentals). Green Diamond 205/55R16's are only 24.9" tall. That's a difference of 1" to 1.2". According to Tech2 schems, 16" and 17" G6s are set to 660mm tall tires, or 25.98". That's 1.1" taller than the green diamonds, or 4.23% difference, outside of the "typical" 3% variance. IMHO, borderline. That's the hard core numbers. He can take it for what it's worth.

One thing I completely forgot that you could simply check on, is if you local Pontiac store could reprogram the ECM/TCM with the new tire height set at 632mm (24.9").

I'm sure a dealer - with salesmen that LOVE to coax the buyer into the extras (i.e. higher priced wheels) could accomodate someone. For a small fee, or as a matter of simple courtesty. Yeah, right (on the courtesy part).

golf_n_motorcycles is that a boxer puppy?

Indeed it is. "Rescued" (bought it from someone that was about to turn it into a money making momma dog) from a 6' x 8' outdoor kennel.

Now she's an inside dog, and despite being only 5 months old, the best inside dog, and boxer, I have ever had.

Indeed it is. "Rescued" (bought it from someone that was about to turn it into a money making momma dog) from a 6' x 8' outdoor kennel.

Now she's an inside dog, and despite being only 5 months old, the best inside dog, and boxer, I have ever had.


They are wonderful dogs. I've got 2, both inside dogs. My female boxer weighs about 80 lbs (2yrs old), and my male boxer weighs about 45 lbs. (will be a year old next month). They share Momma's, so there's no breeding at my house. Maci is colored up like your's and Peatie is white. No one wanted Peatie, so I took him. My grandparetns raise them. I wouldn't take anything for them. Everyone, if any of you are ever looking for a pet that is good with children, then a boxer is the perfect fit!! :)

The guy that had mine also got one of her littermates - a white female. She's about four inches taller than my girl, and weighs just a few more pounds.

Mine only weighs about 30 now, at almost six months old, but is really developing. In the two weeks I have had her I am bringing her around to a much better grade food and she's putting on some weight and really developing. I'd swear that "ugly cute" underbite has grown a half inch in a week, lol.

And yes, to anyone looking for a family pet, give serious consideration to the boxer.