Here is something new. Now that the snow is gone and most of the ice is melted, I broke out the G6. Just to see how it felt, I locked it up on a patch of ice and to my suprise, it did just that, locked up! No ABS action at all. I tried it again and the same thing... The ABS idiot light lights up at startup, as it should. I'll be calling the dealer Monday, but I don't have much faith in the service dept.

did it make the usual ABS 'buzzing' noise when you had them "locked up" or was it silent?

i for one turned off my traction control when on snow or ice. it was the constant noise from the system while it was functioning that drove me bananas.
after driving it both ways, i prefer to drive without traction control, as i said, on the snow or ice but WILL leave it engaged all other times, such as on dry and wet pavement.

Here is something new. Now that the snow is gone and most of the ice is melted, I broke out the G6. Just to see how it felt, I locked it up on a patch of ice and to my suprise, it did just that, locked up! No ABS action at all. I tried it again and the same thing... The ABS idiot light lights up at startup, as it should. I'll be calling the dealer Monday, but I don't have much faith in the service dept.

They will lockup at really slow speed, almost stopped.

There was no sound at all, but for the sound of tires on ice. I was going maybe 20 mph when I locked them up, but they should still work all the way to a stop. I don't have traction control on my G6 V6, Action.

If you don't have traction control on your V6, then you don't have ABS.

The ABS is an available option on the V6, but comes bundled with traction control. Better check your window sticker.

^ Yep, 100% correct. Hope you didn't call your dealer to complain about your ABS not working when you don't even realize you don't have it...

Here ya go.

Wow, this is going to piss me off... Was told it had "Front wheel ABS", 4 wheel ABS was the option.... Well, when I run it into a tree, I'll know what to order next time.. Like a Honda....

Wow, this is going to piss me off... Was told it had "Front wheel ABS", 4 wheel ABS was the option.... Well, when I run it into a tree, I'll know what to order next time.. Like a Honda....

Never heard of ABS on only two wheels.

What would be the point of allowing two wheels to lock up and not the other two?

You think a Honda dealer couldn't give someone bad information too?

Wow, this is going to piss me off... Was told it had "Front wheel ABS", 4 wheel ABS was the option.... Well, when I run it into a tree, I'll know what to order next time.. Like a Honda....
LOL, ABS is optional on Hondas as well ;) . No offense, but I've never been "told" anything that I didn't also research myself. The "front wheel ABS" would have given it away.

2 wheel ABS is very common on vehicles, including my Grand Cherokee. If you can keep the fronts from locking up, you still have steering. Locking the rears is not a prob if you know how to drive.

2 wheel ABS was standard on early 90's 2wd S10 (and perhaps other) pickups on the rear drive wheels. In the pickups, it was to help compenstate for the loaded/unloaded differences on behavior.

2 wheel ABS was standard on early 90's 2wd S10 (and perhaps other) pickups on the rear drive wheels. In the pickups, it was to help compenstate for the loaded/unloaded differences on behavior.
Exactly, It was called rear wheel abs on RWD trucks and very few RWD SUVs, and even fewer RWD vans. ABS only on the front of a front wheel drive car would be redundant, because the rear wheels, which are non-power and non-steering are what really need the abs because you have no other form of control in the rear. The front's need it to, but to regulate and create traction in the front, but not the rear of a FWD vehicle would be a disaster.

2 wheel ABS is has been history pretty much for many years. Was big in the 90s, died in the 00s. It's no longer common at all.

Blame can certainly be placed on the person who mislead you, but I'd mull over the specifications myself as well next time. I put 100% faith in my own research before I put faith in other people's research.

I have rear wheel only ABS on my 97 Chevy S10 and it works great; ABS on the G6 GT rules.

I have front wheel only ABS on my 97 Chevy S10
That would be rear wheel only...

Yes, you are correct; My mistake.

Yes, you are correct; My mistake.
No biggie, just flows better with the conversation, lol! ;)

I was going to post a smart ass coment saying "My ABS doesn't work either"

Until I saw the others figured out why your ABS wasn't working ;) Us 'V6' guys got shafted in a sense.

If you were ABS savvy you could have just picked up the hood and see if the hardware was there.

Exactly, It was called rear wheel abs on RWD trucks and very few RWD SUVs, and even fewer RWD vans. ABS only on the front of a front wheel drive car would be redundant, because the rear wheels, which are non-power and non-steering are what really need the abs because you have no other form of control in the rear. The front's need it to, but to regulate and create traction in the front, but not the rear of a FWD vehicle would be a disaster.

Frankly, after 6+ yrs of racing on dirt and paved circle tracks, I could care less what the rear end of my vehicle is doing. On a street vehicle, the front brakes are given somewhere around 70% of the braking force of the vehicle, since the weight shift is to the front wheels when under braking. On ice or some other surface less than ideal, it is the fronts that will usually lock up first. Since the fronts do the steering it important to maintain the rotation of the front wheels. This is why manufacturers installed front wheel ABS. Only fairly recently has the ABS system been used to regulate wheel speed on front wheel drive vehicles. Rear wheel ABS, such as what has been offered on trucks, was put in place to compensate for the vast difference in load weights you might have in the bed of your truck/van. If you have 2000 lbs in the bed, you'll be able take advantage of much more breaking force in the rear before lockup.
If you want to have a good time, and learn to drive in the process, find a large snow/ice covered parking lot or some other open area (private air strips are ideal). Beg or borrow a front wheel drive vehicle without traction control or 4 wheel ABS. Get up to 30 mph or so and lock up the rear wheels using the parking brake. You will find it is fairly easy to control your vehicle with both rears locked. After you practice this for a few hours, you will no longer be concerned with what the rear of your vehicle is doing, as long as you can steer with the fronts.
If you really want to learn to drive, enroll in one of the many performance driving schools across the nation. You will never know what going fast is all about til you do it on a race track, and do it correctally. We all think we know how to drive, but when you take a school, you find out just how little you really knew. And if you enroll in a "performance" school that supplies you with a vehicle, you will realize that these G6's are not and will never be "performance" cars. They have way too much front end weight, plow like a John Deere and do not have a favorable power/weight ratio. We can make them handle better, make them faster too, but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
I'm sorry if I offended any forum members that believed "Fast and Furious" was a documentary. Real "Fast Guys" do it on the track, not on the street.

Frankly, after 6+ yrs of racing on dirt and paved circle tracks, I could care less what the rear end of my vehicle is doing. On a street vehicle, the front brakes are given somewhere around 70% of the braking force of the vehicle, since the weight shift is to the front wheels when under braking. On ice or some other surface less than ideal, it is the fronts that will usually lock up first. Since the fronts do the steering it important to maintain the rotation of the front wheels. This is why manufacturers installed front wheel ABS. Only fairly recently has the ABS system been used to regulate wheel speed on front wheel drive vehicles. Rear wheel ABS, such as what has been offered on trucks, was put in place to compensate for the vast difference in load weights you might have in the bed of your truck/van. If you have 2000 lbs in the bed, you'll be able take advantage of much more breaking force in the rear before lockup.
If you want to have a good time, and learn to drive in the process, find a large snow/ice covered parking lot or some other open area (private air strips are ideal). Beg or borrow a front wheel drive vehicle without traction control or 4 wheel ABS. Get up to 30 mph or so and lock up the rear wheels using the parking brake. You will find it is fairly easy to control your vehicle with both rears locked. After you practice this for a few hours, you will no longer be concerned with what the rear of your vehicle is doing, as long as you can steer with the fronts.
If you really want to learn to drive, enroll in one of the many performance driving schools across the nation. You will never know what going fast is all about til you do it on a race track, and do it correctally. We all think we know how to drive, but when you take a school, you find out just how little you really knew. And if you enroll in a "performance" school that supplies you with a vehicle, you will realize that these G6's are not and will never be "performance" cars. They have way too much front end weight, plow like a John Deere and do not have a favorable power/weight ratio. We can make them handle better, make them faster too, but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
I'm sorry if I offended any forum members that believed "Fast and Furious" was a documentary. Real "Fast Guys" do it on the track, not on the street.Okay, thanks.

First of all, I've never seen a production car with "front wheel abs" :rolleyes: . Secondly, regardless of what you think, ABS is very important in the rear of your FWD vehicle. Since there is no power and no steering (do I hear an echo), there's nothing to prevent the rear from locking up. At least in a FWD vehicle, you have demand agains the breaks from the normal engine idle power, as well as steering input to help break away from lockup. In the rear, since they are completely free spinning, there's nothing to prevent or break lockup. Yeah, I suppose that you could "learn" to control this, but 99% of people buying cars these days aren't interested in having to learn how to drive some specific way...

Third, under hard braking, the front's will tend to lockup first, or atleast lockup at the same time. But on most FWD cars, especially those with DBP, under light braking, the rears will lockup first. You just do not feel the ABS working because you can't feel it in the brake pedal near as much or in the steering wheel.

And I think it's funny you say "drive your car on ice with the rears locked up" or such, because have you ACTUALLY done this? If you go into a turn in a fwd car, and pull up the parking brake to lockup the rears, your rear end comes right around when you start to correct back to center and you do a 180 - basically your rear tires become skis. At least with RWD cars, you can apply some mild torque and possibly plow out of the turn gaining traction against the lockup.

And the G6 not having performance potential, hello? Sure, it's not a corvette or porsche, but many other cars that make it to the tracks and turn in great times have the EXACT same shortcomings the G6 does in OEM form. That's why you "mod" cars. The fact that you comment that it "plows like a John Deere" indicates that you're not aware of suspension modifications, because I can make any car plow or oversteer. Weight distribution can be overcome. Power-to-weight ratio can be changed :D. So to say a G6 will "never be" a performance car is not true in my book.

I take it you went to one of those schools that have real "performance" cars? :rolleyes:

FWIW, the internet is a funny thing, you never know who you actually might be talking to. ;)

I wouldn't be so combatitive, but to be reading this above from a person who originally posted that their non-existent abs was not working, and that they were told "it's got front wheel abs" and bought it, is slightly oxymoron'ish.

Okay, thanks.

First of all, I've never seen a production car with "front wheel abs" :rolleyes: . Secondly, regardless of what you think, ABS is very important in the rear of your FWD vehicle. Since there is no power and no steering (do I hear an echo), there's nothing to prevent the rear from locking up. At least in a FWD vehicle, you have demand agains the breaks from the normal engine idle power, as well as steering input to help break away from lockup. In the rear, since they are completely free spinning, there's nothing to prevent or break lockup. Yeah, I suppose that you could "learn" to control this, but 99% of people buying cars these days aren't interested in having to learn how to drive some specific way...

Third, under hard braking, the front's will tend to lockup first, or atleast lockup at the same time. But on most FWD cars, especially those with DBP, under light braking, the rears will lockup first. You just do not feel the ABS working because you can't feel it in the brake pedal near as much or in the steering wheel.

And I think it's funny you say "drive your car on ice with the rears locked up" or such, because have you ACTUALLY done this? If you go into a turn in a fwd car, and pull up the parking brake to lockup the rears, your rear end comes right around when you start to correct back to center and you do a 180 - basically your rear tires become skis. At least with RWD cars, you can apply some mild torque and possibly plow out of the turn gaining traction against the lockup.

And the G6 not having performance potential, hello? Sure, it's not a corvette or porsche, but many other cars that make it to the tracks and turn in great times have the EXACT same shortcomings the G6 does in OEM form. That's why you "mod" cars. The fact that you comment that it "plows like a John Deere" indicates that you're not aware of suspension modifications, because I can make any car plow or oversteer. Weight distribution can be overcome. Power-to-weight ratio can be changed :D. So to say a G6 will "never be" a performance car is not true in my book.

I take it you went to one of those schools that have real "performance" cars? :rolleyes:

FWIW, the internet is a funny thing, you never know who you actually might be talking to. ;)

I wouldn't be so combatitive, but to be reading this above from a person who originally posted that their non-existent abs was not working, and that they were told "it's got front wheel abs" and bought it, is slightly oxymoron'ish.

From what I gleen from your posts, I would guess you are in your early 20's, and therefore might have never heard of "front only ABS". In fact, you may have never heard of the original traction control and ABS, it's called "drivers skill". To answer your questions, yes I have practiced ice driving by e-brake use, and yes I have been to performance driving schools, both 2 & 4 wheel. Frankly, you seem to live to be combatitive, and you are right, with this internet thing, you never know who you might be talking too, some of them even talk from where most people sit. It may be hard for you to believe that other people might know something too, even if it were learned from trial and error. Some of us might have even known how to drive while you were still a wet spot on your daddy's sheets.

From what I gleen from your posts, I would guess you are in your early 20's, and therefore might have never heard of "front only ABS". In fact, you may have never heard of the original traction control and ABS, it's called "drivers skill". To answer your questions, yes I have practiced ice driving by e-brake use, and yes I have been to performance driving schools, both 2 & 4 wheel. Frankly, you seem to live to be combatitive, and you are right, with this internet thing, you never know who you might be talking too, some of them even talk from where most people sit. It may be hard for you to believe that other people might know something too, even if it were learned from trial and error. Some of us might have even known how to drive while you were still a wet spot on your daddy's sheets.
Isn't it always funny how people have to resort to insults in some faint attempt to strike back? :D

Perhaps you can clue us all into what vehicles have been produced in (I'll make it easy for you) the last 10 years, with "front only ABS"??? :rolleyes:

Is it still an insult if it is only stating fact??

Ahh.. I completely forgot that age = wisdom. Thats why I see so many old people in the left hand lane of the interstate going 10mph under the speed limit with their blinker on.

Ironically there is an entire list of drivers younger than most of the people on here who have more skills than all of us combined. *sigh* when in doubt pull the age card.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3102/is_11_123/ai_n8567564

* Four wheel ABS, which can control braking at all of the wheels on the vehicle.

* Two wheel, or rear ABS, which controls braking at the rear wheels only.

ok.. there isn't a need to bicker and question knowledge.. but.. PCB.. currently you're not too credible.. i mean.. you were complaining about your ABS not working.. when you didn't even have ABS! i'm not trying to be an ass, but just stating a fact.. and.. good article S8ER99.. haha

Is it still an insult if it is only stating fact??
Listen, I'm not trying to start a fight. I also don't participate in slinging insults, so don't expect that either. But front wheel ABS, if it ever did exist, only existed maybe on some "special cars" or may have been some initial testing way back in the day. Front Wheel ABS in mainstream automobile production does not exist.

I am waiting to read about the front wheel only ABS vehicles, post the list.

I can tell you of three, my 1989 Jeep ZJ, My 1999 Ford F150, and a chevy Lumina I used to drive (I forget the year, early 90's I'd suspect). The F150 clamed to have rear ABS, but it was in fact juat a porportional valve attached to the rear axle, actuated by ride hight. Don't get in a tizzy, age does not always equal wisdom, but neither does youth. Those of us that have been around awhile just may have seen a few things that younger people haven't ever heard of. I remember when my daughter thought the TV was broken because the program was in black and white. Anyway, I obiviously was mistaken in thinking my G6 has any form of ABS, but I didn't post here to get ripped apart.

Edited by Administration

I can tell you of three, my 1989 Jeep ZJ, My 1999 Ford F150, and a chevy Lumina I used to drive (I forget the year, early 90's I'd suspect). The F150 clamed to have rear ABS, but it was in fact juat a porportional valve attached to the rear axle, actuated by ride hight.
1989 ZJ? The ZJ is the Grand Cherokee from 1993 - 1998. You stated earlier that you have a Grand Cherokee, so it must be 1993 or later. If it is, then the system is either a 3 channel 4-wheel system or 4 channel 4-wheel system. Not until 1997 did the ZJ get the good 4-channel ABS system. At no time did a Grand Cherokee (ZJ or WJ) have anything less than a 4 wheel ABS system.

F150s did indeed have ABS, a 1 channel Bosch system which has 1 rear brake line and 1 ABS control. Both rear brakes share the same brake line, hydraulic pressure, and ABS sensor. The rear ABS sensor mounts to the top center of the axle housing and reads it's signal from the toner ring which is mounted to the differential behind the ring gear. The optional 4-wheel system was a 3 channel system with the same rear system as stated above, but with two additional lines to each front wheel.

All Chevy Luminas had either no ABS, or 4-wheel ABS (a 3 channel Bosch system). Again, two dedicated lines to each wheel in the front, and one single line for both rear brakes.

I'm guessing that ALL three of those cars had 4-wheels ABS, you just assumed that since you didn't see individual lines to the rear wheels, that they only had ABS in the front, which is incorrect.

Sorry, finger slip, 1998 JZ, and I stand on my experiance with the Lumina, Ford and Jeep. The rears will lock and the fronts will "Chatter" as controlled by the ABS. If you can find one of these vehicles, try it yourself. While 4 wheel might have been avaliable, it sure was not in mine.

Listen, I'm not trying to start a fight. I also don't participate in slinging insults, so don't expect that either. But front wheel ABS, if it ever did exist, only existed maybe on some "special cars" or may have been some initial testing way back in the day. Front Wheel ABS in mainstream automobile production does not exist.

My bonneville has 4-wheel ABS and is hardly a "special car". Am I missing something here :confused:

My bonneville has 4-wheel ABS and is hardly a "special car". Am I missing something here :confused:
Front wheel ABS, not 4 wheel ABS. The claim here is that there are "front wheel only ABS" cars.

Front wheel ABS, not 4 wheel ABS. The claim here is that there are "front wheel only ABS" cars.

Ahh...my bad :o

The 'wheels' would not chatter themselves right?...since the ABS unit is under the hood regardless of what wheels are chattering you would hear it from the front. (If I am not mistaken the noise is from the valves in the ABS unit not the calipers on the wheels) Feel free to correct me if that is wrong.

Also it is possible for the rears to be locking and the fronts to have proper ABS functions if the rears are malfunctioning. Early ABS systems had a lot of problems (crappy wheel sensors, clearences, etc)... I would assume the Lumina would be no exception.

Sorry, finger slip, 1998 JZ, and I stand on my experiance with the Lumina, Ford and Jeep. The rears will lock and the fronts will "Chatter" as controlled by the ABS. If you can find one of these vehicles, try it yourself. While 4 wheel might have been avaliable, it sure was not in mine.Well, just because you can lock the rears, (though unless you had your head out the window or someone watching, I'd wonder how you'd even be able to tell if you rears were actually locking), doesn't mean you don't have ABS*. A crappy 3 channel system will be more prone to rear lock than a good 4 channel, but does not mean that it's not doing something more than if you had nothing. Each of those vehicles you listed, if they had ABS sensors up front, were 4 wheel systems, not front wheel systems. There's no such thing (within production vehicles) as front wheel ABS.

* Please understand that rear or "free wheel" ABS as it's called does not work like the fronts in a FWD car. More or less, they will lock up, because other than the forward momentum of the car, there's nothing preventing the wheels from stopping movement. The rear ABS system is more reactionary than preventionary, so you don't see the effects until you start to ease off the brake once the rear has locked. So if you pound the brakes on a FWD car with ABS, especially in a 3channel system, the rears will ALWAYS lock up, and as you release the brake slowly as the ABS system starts bucking the pedal, then you'll start to get some pulsation in the rear, but you only feel it in the front (where the system is located). Just FYI.

The 'wheels' would not chatter themselves right?...since the ABS unit is under the hood regardless of what wheels are chattering you would hear it from the front. (If I am not mistaken the noise is from the valves in the ABS unit not the calipers on the wheels) Feel free to correct me if that is wrong.You are correct. The only indicators in the cockpit would be the pedal bucking (which would not be decernable front or rear), and the ABS "sound", which comes from the ABS module under the hood.


Also it is possible for the rears to be locking and the fronts to have proper ABS functions if the rears are malfunctioning. Early ABS systems had a lot of problems (crappy wheel sensors, clearences, etc)... I would assume the Lumina would be no exception.Typical of 3 channel systems. One line to the rear to control both wheels at the same time. But as stated above, the rear system on FWD, since it's a free wheel, will be prone to immediate lockup because you always press the pedal hard first, then let off, at which time the abs starts to kick in in the rear. But many 3 channel systems were pretty sucky and worthless.

I'm in the automotive design business (Honda) never have I heard of front only ABS. Take it for what its worth.

Thanks BigBen...

I think it is important to note that people are not out to get you PCB but merely to clear up the misinformation.

Wow, this is going to piss me off... Was told it had "Front wheel ABS", 4 wheel ABS was the option.... Well, when I run it into a tree, I'll know what to order next time.. Like a Honda....
PCB--

Don't feel bad. My story is I picked out the G6 I wanted, looked over the options, of which ABS and traction control was on the list, but the dealer couldn't find the car on the lot. He said he found another with the same options, but it was like $400 cheaper, so I said I'd take the cheaper one. Well, the reason it was cheaper was because it didn't have ABS. I'm in Michigan, so it does snow. I've had cars with and without ABS. I've driven my G6 through a couple snow storms now, and it seems to do OK without it. I just have to be more careful not to just mash the brake pedal and wait for it to stop.

did it make the usual ABS 'buzzing' noise when you had them "locked up" or was it silent?

i for one turned off my traction control when on snow or ice. it was the constant noise from the system while it was functioning that drove me bananas.
after driving it both ways, i prefer to drive without traction control, as i said, on the snow or ice but WILL leave it engaged all other times, such as on dry and wet pavement.

I think the dealer may be misinformed about turning off traction control. When you do that you are going from two wheel drive to one wheel drive. The buzzing noise, to me, is an indication that something is wrong, possibly switching from wheel to wheel tooo quickly?