Steering Issue - Pontiac G6 Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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Steering Issue

My wifes G6 has something going on with the steering and Im trying to figure out what it is. I am familiar with hydraulic systems but not electric so I could use any help that I can get. The issue is that the steering wheel turns with very little effort to the left but requires much more force to turn it to the right. My suspicion is that the rack is shot as I replaced the outer tie rod ends (inners are also bad but if the rack needs to be replaced they come with it) alignment and tire pressure is good. Any thoughts or has anyone else had this problem?

Last edited by je1279; 07-30-2011 at 06:21 PM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by je1279 View Post
My wifes G6 has something going on with the steering and Im trying to figure out what it is. I am familiar with hydraulic systems but not electric so I could use any help that I can get. The issue is that the steering wheel turns with very little effort to the left but requires much more force to turn it to the right. My suspicion is that the rack is shot as I replaced the outer tie rod ends (inners are also bad but if the rack needs to be replaced they come with it) alignment and tire pressure is good. Any thoughts or has anyone else had this problem?
What engine & model year?

One thing you might try:
You can easily disable the EPS by pulling the red wire off the EPS fuse (big fuse #41 for the 09MY) & run it sans power-assist to see if that makes a difference in the left-right steering torque required. You might also just jack up the front end, put the key in RUN position, & see what you find. (Fair Warning: You'll need to protect the naked terminal end of that red wire from touching anything during your tests as it is unfused B+).

The GM EPS system is problematic at best. I always look there first.


(The chart formatting is stripped out during the copy/paste which makes it a bit harder to interpret any charts)

Service Information
2009 Pontiac G6 | G6 (VIN Z) Service Manual | Document ID: 1774870
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steering Effort Hard or Too Easy in One or Both Directions (Electronic Power Steering)

Condition
Action

The battery power is low.
Confirm proper battery voltage.

The intermediate shaft dash seal is binding.
Adjust the dash seal, or replace the intermediate shaft assembly if necessary.

The intermediate shaft joints are loose or worn.
Inspect the joints and the pinch bolts for damage, and replace the intermediate shaft if necessary. Refer to Intermediate Steering Shaft Replacement.

The steering gear is binding.
If necessary, inspect and replace the steering gear. Refer to Steering Gear Replacement.

The upper steering shaft is bent.
If necessary, replace the steering column. Refer to Steering Column Replacement.

The assist mechanism hub gear is misaligned or damaged.
Replace the steering column. Refer to Steering Column Replacement.

The sensor wire is damaged.
Replace the steering column. Refer to Steering Column Replacement.

The controller is malfunctioning.
Confirm the DTC. If necessary, replace the motor/module assembly. Refer to Power Steering Assist Motor Replacement.

The motor shaft is binding.
Confirm the DTC. If necessary, replace the motor/module assembly. Refer to Power Steering Assist Motor Replacement.




Last edited by greenman; 07-31-2011 at 12:44 AM.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 06:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again greenman. Its a '06 with the 3500 V6. I will look into these items and report back.

Last edited by je1279; 07-31-2011 at 06:32 AM.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by je1279 View Post
Thanks again greenman. Its a '06 with the 3500 V6. I will look into these items and report back.
Have you ever gotten a "POWER STEERING" message from the DIC? If yes, you have an EPS issue. Even if you haven't noticed it, I have a suspicion that's where your problem lies. About all a normal guy can do is determine whether it steers OK without the EPS ON. Do you have an extended warranty because it could get expensive if it is the EPS?




Last edited by greenman; 07-31-2011 at 02:10 PM.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-01-2011, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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I asked her about the "POWER STEERING" message on the DIC and she said that she’s never seen it. Unfortunately she’s the second owner and she didn’t get an extended warranty so unless its covered by a TSB or recall were going to end up paying out of pocket. I located the fuse yesterday but didn’t have time to remove the wire to the EPS motor to test it so I plan on trying that tonight or tomorrow to see if that will narrow things down.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-01-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by je1279 View Post
I asked her about the "POWER STEERING" message on the DIC and she said that she’s never seen it. Unfortunately she’s the second owner and she didn’t get an extended warranty so unless its covered by a TSB or recall were going to end up paying out of pocket. I located the fuse yesterday but didn’t have time to remove the wire to the EPS motor to test it so I plan on trying that tonight or tomorrow to see if that will narrow things down.
I just remembered you can accomplish the same thing by just pulling the 2amp EPS fuse in the cabin fuse box. The steering will be very hard at low speeds because the EPS is still geared into the steering shaft. Much harder than you would expect.

I think the problem lies in your EPS system. Call a dealer with your VIN & ask about the EPS specifically. GM extended coverage for some vehicles.

You may also want to try to get an extended GM warranty:

http://www.gmprotectionplan.com/

It may be too late if the steering is that noticeably bad.

The steering problem started before you replaced the outer tie rods, right?

Have you taken it to a tire store & have them rack it & give you an opinion? That would cost you nothing.




Last edited by greenman; 08-02-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-01-2011, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks greenman, I will give that a shot. Yeah this was happening before I replaced the outer tie rod ends and the Monro I took it to for an alignment suspected the rack also but I don’t know how familiar they are with EPS. Based on what you posted and what I've read elsewhere I would like to eliminate the EPS motor and the intermediate shaft before I replace the rack.

Last edited by je1279; 08-01-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-01-2011, 01:39 PM
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Thanks greenman, I will give that a shot. Yeah this was happening before I replaced the outer tie rod ends and the Monro I took it to for an alignment suspected the rack also but I don’t know how familiar they are with EPS. Based on what you posted and what I've read elsewhere I would like to eliminate the EPS motor and the intermediate shaft before I replace the rack.
There are a lot of folks around here that "would like to eliminate the EPS motor and the intermediate shaft" from their vehicles & their lives entirely.




Last edited by greenman; 08-01-2011 at 04:50 PM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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There are a lot of folks around here that "would like to eliminate the EPS motor and the intermediate shaft" from their vehicles & their lives entirely.
Lol I can imagine. I pulled the 2 amp fuse from the interior fuse panel and got the "power steering" message but no difference in the feel of the wheel. Still goes left with a couple fingers but you need two hands to go right. Looks like checking out the intermediate shaft is next...
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 01:00 PM
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Lol I can imagine. I pulled the 2 amp fuse from the interior fuse panel and got the "power steering" message but no difference in the feel of the wheel. Still goes left with a couple fingers but you need two hands to go right. Looks like checking out the intermediate shaft is next...
Interesting. That's very different than how mine acts when you pull that fuse. I lose EPS completely. I thought that 2 amp fuse was for the EPS controller. Must be a different design for the '06.

It sounds like you are getting no power-assist in one direction. Could just be the torque sensor. I don't think there is much you can do about it yourself. I think it's tech 2 time.

At least you are not having it lose power-assist intermittently while driving. You can imagine just how dangerous that could be. Pretty scary to think about actually.

Maybe someone who knows the EPS system better than I do can advise you.

You may. or may not, want to look at this:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Pontiac...s_faulty.shtml
_________________________________________


Service Information
2006 Pontiac G6 | G6 (VIN Z) Service Manual | Document ID: 1640789
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Power Steering System Description and Operation (Electronic Power Steering)
The power steering system reduces the amount of effort needed to steer the vehicle. The system uses the powertrain control module (PCM), body control module (BCM), power steering control module (PSCM), discrete battery voltage supply circuit, steering shaft torque sensor, steering wheel position sensor, power steering motor, driver information center (DIC), and the serial data circuit to perform the system functions. The PSCM and the power steering motor are serviced as an assembly and are serviced separately from the steering column assembly. The steering shaft torque sensor and the steering wheel position sensor are not serviced separately from each other or from the steering column assembly. The steering column assembly does not include the power steering motor and module assembly.

Steering Shaft Torque Sensor
The power steering control module (PSCM) uses the steering shaft torque sensor as it's main input for determining steering direction and the amount of assists needed. The steering column has an input shaft, from the steering wheel to the torque sensor, and an output shaft, from the torque sensor to the steering shaft coupler. The input and output shafts are separated by a section of torsion bar, where the torque sensor is located. The sensor is a 5-volt dual analog inverse signal device with a valid signal voltage range of 0.25-4.75 volts. When applying torque to the steering column shaft during a right turn, the sensor's signal 1 voltage increases, while the signal 2 voltage decreases within the valid signal voltage range. When applying torque to the steering column shaft during a left turn, the signal 1 voltage decreases, wile the signal 2 voltage increases within the valid signal voltage range. The PSCM recognizes this change in signal voltage as steering direction and steering column shaft torque.

Steering Wheel Position Sensor
The power steering control module (PSCM) uses the steering position sensor to determine the steering system on center position. Since the power steering motor provides a slight amount of return to center assist, the PSCM will command the power steering motor to the steering system center position and not beyond. The sensor is a 5-volt dual analog triangle signal device with a valid signal voltage range of 0-5 volts. The sensors signal 1 and signal 2 voltage values will increase and decrease within the valid voltage range, and stay within 2.5-2.8 volts of each other as the steering wheel is turned.

Power Steering Motor
The power steering motor is a 12-volt brushless DC reversible motor with a 65-amp rating. The motor assists steering through a worm gear and reduction gear located in the steering column housing.

Power Steering Control Module (PSCM)
The power steering control module (PSCM) uses a combination of steering shaft torque sensor input, vehicle speed, calculated system temperature and steering tuning to determine the amount of steering assist. When the steering wheel is turned, the PSCM uses signal voltage from the steering shaft torque sensor to detect the amount of torque and steering direction being applied to the steering column shaft and then command the proper amount of current to the power steering motor. The PSCM receives a vehicle speed message from the powertrain control module (PCM) via the serial data circuit. At low speeds more assist is provided for easy turning during parking maneuvers. At high speeds, less assist is provided for improved road feel and directional stability. The PSCM nor the power steering motor are designed to handle 65 amps continuously. If the power steering system is exposed to excessive amounts of static steering conditions, the PSCM will go into a protection mode to avoid thermal damage to the power steering components. In this mode the PSCM will limit the amount of current commanded to the power steering motor which reduces system temperature and steering assist levels. The PSCM must also be setup with the correct steering tuning which are different in relation to the vehicles powertrain configuration, sedan, coupe, tire and wheel size etc. The PSCM has the ability to detect malfunctions within the power steering system. Any malfunction detected will cause the driver information center (DIC) to display the POWER STEERING warning message and/or the service vehicle soon indicator.




Last edited by greenman; 08-02-2011 at 07:08 PM.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-29-2011, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Ok so bringing this back from the dead with an update. I havent had a chance to bring it to the dealership yet but today as I was moving the car in front of my house the power steering just stopped working. Definitely thought something broke until I did some reading here and found that this happened to others also. Just tried it again and it is back to the way it was but if that was her she wouldnt have been able to move the wheel.
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