GM Closing Plants, Cutting 30,000 Jobs - Pontiac G6 Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy GM Closing Plants, Cutting 30,000 Jobs

General Motors this morning announced deep cuts in its North American operations including the closure of three assembly plants, assembly lines at three other plants, and a host of stamping plants and distribution centers as it attempts to bring its capacity in line with market demand for its vehicles.

The subject of many swirling bankruptcy rumors around Detroit, General Motors says it will shed 30,000 manufacturing jobs as a result of the closures, primarily through attritition and retirement, as the plants close over the next two years.

The plants being closed outright include the Oklahoma City facility that produces some of GM's mid-size SUVs. The plant had been damaged by a tornado in 2003 and extensively repaired, leading some analysts to suggest it might be saved.

Also being closed is GM's Doraville, Ga., plant, which builds the company's slow-selling minivans. The suburban Atlanta plant is one of GM's older facilities and it's expected that GM's next generation of minivans or people movers will be built in Michigan, from a mid-size vehicle architecture.

The Lansing Craft Center will close, probably meaning the end of the line for the Chevrolet SSR hot-rod pickup. The intriguing V-8-powered hardtop convertible truck has never met sales expectations, even as a niche product.

Plants in Oshawa., Ont.; Moraine, Ohio; and Spring Hill, Tenn., will lose some production capacity. Oshawa will lose one line and one of its two plants; Spring Hill will drop one of its assembly lines; and Moraine will lose a shift of production.

In addition to the assembly facilities, stamping plants in Lansing, Mich., and Pittsbugh, Penna., will close, as will distribution centers in Portland, Ore., and Ypsilanti, Mich. GM also said one more distribution center, yet to be named, will close.

In all, GM says the moves should help it shed 1 million units of capacity by 2008.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 03:12 PM
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I read another article about this that had a real slap in the face to GM:

Mike O’Rourke, president of United Auto Workers Local 1853 in Spring Hill, said GM leaders need to change approaches to be successful. “They need to design cars that sell,” O’Rourke said.

slap!

Mike
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 05:30 PM
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Man, fock the unions, if GM wasn't saddled with paying for all their bullsh1t they would have a hell of a lot more money to design those "cars that sell".
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:04 AM
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U.A.W. to blame

What a crock, saying its the union fault G.M. is in the state its in.
Why do I see so many complants about all your G6's
Its not the unions fault for all the problems
I'm a union test mechanic for G.M. and have seen most of the problems you owners are writing about before the car even came out. Did G.M. do anything about them while we were testing them? You tell me. Its the big wigs at G.M. that can't get it right. They don't build a car that you just have to have, and even though we test them and find problems they still go there merry way.
And yes I do own a G6
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:50 AM
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^ My car has been perfect, but people have had problems like loose strut bolts, that is the unions fault. Do you see foreign companies having union problems? No, because they don't deal with your sh1t. Face the facts that unions are driving the American automotive industry into the ground. If you don't then more layoffs like this are not only possible but a sure thing.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 11:09 AM
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unions falt

Get a grip!
The union workers can only build or put parts on a car that the G.M. leaders tell us to put on. And did you know a lot of the parts that fail are built over seas, and not by us bad union workers.
I have seen to many problems that G.M. just lets go, like steering lock up, sun roof rattles, cracked welds on the body at the right front fender causing rattles (done by robots) and the list gos on and on.
Why are cars over seas so much better? Mybe because the big wigs over there don't let the cars get built till the problems are corrected when tested.
Why is G.M. building such gas hoggs? That must be the unions fault to. I must get my gas for free. Why don't the put a four banger in the G6 to get better gas milage, somthing the buyer might want.
No G.M. has all its hopes in it new truck line thats going to save the Corp.
Lets burn more gas!!!!
And I won't get in to the problems they have with the trucks, that are still going to go to market. And that will be the unions fault also!!!
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 12:31 PM
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Certified robot techs and/or welding techs can/should be able to fix the cracked welds with a little time and a little research. Minor fix, actually.

ANYONE with a wrench, or preset air ratchet left in place long enough, would be able to sufficiently tighten a simple nut, with a lot less time.

I don't know enough to lay blame on the union jobs or the GM brass, but I know firsthand that it cost A LOT more to build something with union labor than it does non union. I'm well educated about the pros and cons of both union and non. I'm very happy being non union, and you union boys seem very happy being union. That said, I'm not about to ruin my happiness or anyone elses arguing the point either way.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 12:51 PM
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[Rant on]

Quote:
The union workers can only build or put parts on a car that the G.M. leaders tell us to put on.
When, and if, the union workers feel like putting them on.

Quote:
And did you know a lot of the parts that fail are built over seas, and not by us bad union workers.
Really? Such as? (And I'm not talking switches and light bulbs, either.)

Quote:
I have seen to (sic) many problems that G.M. just lets go, like steering lock up, sun roof rattles, cracked welds on the body at the right front fender causing rattles (done by robots) and the list gos on and on.
Steering system manufactured by union employees, sun roof installed by union employees, robots maintained and programmed by union employees.

Quote:
Why are cars over seas so much better?
J.D. Powers says, over and over, that they're not. It's a myth that's perpetuated by people who still live in the 80's. The Malibu is highest rated mid-size, the G6 has gotten awards in initial quality as well. FACT - Foreign cars are losing ground in the top 10 ratings every year.

Quote:
Why is G.M. building such gas hoggs?
Haven't been paying attention, have you? 32mpg for a 3.5L is FAR from being a gas "hogg" (sic). And the 5.7L in the Vette will get you almost that as well. Compare the mileage ratings for the GM mid-size car lineup against the lineup of the japanese companies - you'll be disappointed.

Quote:
Why don't the put a four banger in the G6 to get better gas milage,
Now it's obvious that you haven't been paying attention. They DO put a 4 cylinder in the G6. It's called a 2.2L ecotec.

Quote:
No G.M. has all its hopes in it new truck line thats going to save the Corp.
Sorry, bad assumption. The truck line is, quite simply, profitable because it sells volume per projection. (probably because they're so poorly designed, right?)

Quote:
And I won't get in to the problems they have with the trucks, that are still going to go to market.
Damn crappy Chevy trucks. I guess I need to DRIVE my 3/4 ton (320,000 miles) and my 1/2 ton (178,000 miles) to the junkyard. Man those Chevy trucks are SO poorly engineered - thank God the union lineworkers were there to make sure all the poorly engineered junk was put together so well. Funny, my brother has been working on the Silverado line for many years, and he hasn't mentioned all these problems of which you speak. He has, however, commented how he hates to work in a union shop since the work ethic is so poor and we were raised to do the best job possible and be proud of it.

Quote:
And that will be the unions fault also!!!
Yes...yes it will. Until the "job for life" mentality is ditched, we will continue to receive more of the same laziness and lack of attention to detail from union workers.

[Rant off]
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Why are cars over seas so much better?


You do realize that most "over seas" vehicles are made here in America by American non-union workers.

RP
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:21 PM
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Jerry,

How does what golf_n_motorcycles make you feel? lol!

You might want to think before you rant next time. Maybe if you do some research before you make yourself look like an idiot people may actually listen to what you have to say.

Not all "union" employees are as angry as you. Take a breath - "think more, less emotion..you'll live longer."
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Why are cars over seas so much better? Mybe because the big wigs over there don't let the cars get built till the problems are corrected when tested
That makes no sense. It's impossible to test a car for every possible problem. It's a process that just happens as people drive their cars. You can't test for those kinds of things before releasing a car to the public. That's why we have recalls.

Mike
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 06:42 AM
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Like GTPGuy said, almost every car line is going to have it's initial problems. It's hard to get absolutly everything right the first time around. Sometimes it's because of slacking during assembly, and sometimes it will be a design problem.

But heres the thing. This whole situation is much, much bigger than just GM and the UAW. Yes, the UAW does get paid very well, and are very well taken care of. Yes, that is a big chunk of money that GM pays every year. But, to those people who say taht we should entirely get rid of the Union, that is only a temporary fix, and not for very long. GM would instantly been seen as a horrible, horrible corporation by most of american society, if not the world, for laying off all those people, and that is not something that will help us sell cars.

Additionally, if they were to lay off all those people, what kind of effect would that have on the economy? not a good one thats for sure, there would be a lot of unemployed people, and by not paying those people, they will not be putting their money back into the economy, and so on. The economics of the whole situation is terrifing.

Finally, the fact that so many people are so infatuated with how glorious the foreign, specifically japanese, automakers doesn't help any. Like was mentioned before, how someone mentioned GM building "gas guzzling cars." The fact is, as a corporation, GM has a better average fuel economy than Toyota. But you don't hear that, you only hear about the hybrids and their EPA of 51 highway, 60 city (which is BS anyways, but thats another post). What you don't hear is that the Toyota Sequoia 4WD gets mpg of 15/17, while the current tahoe gets 15/19, and the next-gen tahoe gets a mized rating of 20.1 on the 4WD model.

I would hate to see it happen, but if toyota becomes the #1 automaker, maybe finally the media will dig into them like it does GM, and finally level the playing field, instead of elevating the foreign manufacturers like deity.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsuperfreak
Finally, the fact that so many people are so infatuated with how glorious the foreign, specifically japanese, automakers doesn't help any. Like was mentioned before, how someone mentioned GM building "gas guzzling cars." The fact is, as a corporation, GM has a better average fuel economy than Toyota. But you don't hear that, you only hear about the hybrids and their EPA of 51 highway, 60 city (which is BS anyways, but thats another post). What you don't hear is that the Toyota Sequoia 4WD gets mpg of 15/17, while the current tahoe gets 15/19, and the next-gen tahoe gets a mized rating of 20.1 on the 4WD model.

I would hate to see it happen, but if toyota becomes the #1 automaker, maybe finally the media will dig into them like it does GM, and finally level the playing field, instead of elevating the foreign manufacturers like deity.
Toyota, Nissan, and the others have done what GM, Ford and Chrysler have been doing for years. They did it in less time, with less money, and without union labor. That, in itself, will lead to finger pointing and comparisons. As for digging into any of them, I say good luck, and use a hardened tip shovel

EVERYBODY from companies to individuals want EVERYTHING they get today, at less money than they got it yesterday, but at better quality and in quicker fashion than they got it yesterday. It's the nature of the beast. As is the fact that top brass of ANY company large company, whether it be an auto maker or the union that represents the employees of that automaker, make the BIG bucks and get the BIG bonuses, often undeservedly so. There is a means where the company can make money, ALL the employees can make money and get bonuses, and everyone is happy. Depending on where the particular company is on the general map, it can be an ugly road that leads to that means, but the road is there. If GM takes it, they will be talked about for years, until one day, they are rewarded and revered, the way the "imports" are today.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 09:01 PM
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Exclamation upcoming GM plant closures...

Who at GM hasn't been minding the competition for at least the last decade? There is a justifiable reason that the foreign car manufacturers are doing better business than their American counterparts. Economy is one reason & the other (of many I am certain) is affordability!

Let's look at the latter first... Chevrolet's SSR. What percent of the population can afford to drop $50K on a sport truck? Probably the same percentage that can afford to drop the same $ on a Hummer that only gets 10 miles/gallon.

Prior to my purchase of my G6-GT, I smartly shopped the market. I was all but sold on the Volvo S40. If it weren't for my height, I wouldn't be posting this today. I have always bought American, with the minor exception of the Ford Aspire that turned out to be a Kia <shudder!> (that mistake only lasted a month!

If the American auto makers (designers) would only build a better mousetrap -then the public would see the quality in the workmanship & desire a "more where that came from" attitude in lieu of, well... look at what Honda & Toyota have for 2006...; Their price is right & the resale value is out of this world.

I sold cars for a minute time span in Portland, OR. The majority of folks that actually had the opportunity to tell me what they wanted or were looking for before my sales rep barked at me to tell them what they wanted, was of the two earlier mentioned reasons. Most of MY customers came onto the USED CAR lot looking for a trade in (whether American or otherwise).

GM needs to step away from the gambling tables & stop gambling with people's lives in exchange for their overall success rates!

Patrick [aka: The Oracle]
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 09:31 PM
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I was pretty surprised that they layed off workers in the Oshawa plant which is #1 in north america but that really doesn't mean anything GM needs a restructuring! I say they shouldn't have so much brands they should trim some of the brands out! Just a question have any of you seen the Pontiac Torrent out in the streets I know I haven't! Is that SUV selling well?
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