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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

I know new members are supposed to introduce themselves in the new members forum but I have a bunch of questions too so I figured I'd cut to the chase and make this my intro as well.

As of right now I plan on purchasing a GTP Sedan in a few weeks when I get home from a business "trip" I'm on. It will be my first car purchase ever (I'm 22).

I've test driven the car and done a lot of research online. I've been sold on the car since the test drive but some recent research I've been doing has me second-guessing myself lately.

First off, I'll say I'm not a car expert, so that may explain some of my questions.

I've been reading that the engine for the G6 is a pushrod which is apparently ancient technology. Does this really affect the quality/lifespan of the engine or is it more of an efficiency issue in terms of gas and power?

The reviews like to put down the 4 speed transmission as well. Is there any kind of mechanical problem with that or is it more of a performance issue? I know one review stated that despite the 4 speed transmission the G6 handles the gears better than some of it's competitors 5 speeds and is still a refined transmission. On the test drive I took I didn't notice any problems with the transmission (not that I'm an expert or anything). I took it in stop and go city traffic as well as out on the interstate.

I'm a little concerned with it being a GM car as well. Not so much from the quality standpoint, but from a "support" standpoint. I know GM is having all kinds of problems right now with turning a profit and wonder if there's anyway that may have some kind of negative impact in the future. I'm also somewhat concerned about the quality of the car as well. I want to basically have the choice of keeping the car vs. getting a new one 7 years down the line vs. it making the decision for me by falling apart.

I've been reading these forums lately and I notice a lot of complaints. I realize though that the internet is the place for people to complain and people with problems are much, much more likely to post something about their problems than someone whos car runs great.

Most of the reviews say the G6 it isn't quite up to par with it's competitors, although this seems to be due to the 4 speed transmission, iron pushrod engine, louder engine, gas mileage, louder interior, numb electric steering (moot on the GTP), and other minor (in my opinion) problems. Essentially, none of these problems that cause it to "lag behind" the competition really are a big deal to me.

I guess I'm looking for some answers to my questions, and for someone to assuage my fears.
 

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Well, I have a G6 GTP with a 6 speed manual. The new 3900 V6 is a pushrod motor, but features VVT and a Variable Intake System. The 3900 is a strong motor with very good power. The difference between a pushrod motor and a DOHC, is complexity. The DOHC is a more expensive and more complex. A DOHC can rev higher than a pushrod motor, but does not have the torque of a pushrod motor.

The 4 speed auto is lagging behind the competition, but the 4T65E is a solid tranny. GM actually has a 6 speed auto coming soon.

These are just a few facts to get the ball rolling.
 

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Lucius said:
I've been reading that the engine for the G6 is a pushrod which is apparently ancient technology. Does this really affect the quality/lifespan of the engine or is it more of an efficiency issue in terms of gas and power?
As was said. Most manufacturers seem to go with OHC instead of OHV engines. It doesn't mean the quality of the 3.9 is in any way lower then others. GM has rock-solid engines. My 89 bonneville's engine had almost 200,000 miles before i got rid of it. ran as great as day 1. My family has owned nothing but pontiac's since before i was born. I myself am on my 5th - 89 bonneville, 92 grand am, 02 sunfire, 03 vibe, 06 g6. I never regretted any of those decisions.

GM sticks with the technology because it works. I get better fuel economy in my 3500 V6 then I did with my 1.8L I4 corolla engine in the Vibe. And a HELL of a lot more power. Trust me -- nothing to fear here.

The reviews like to put down the 4 speed transmission as well. Is there any kind of mechanical problem with that or is it more of a performance issue? I know one review stated that despite the 4 speed transmission the G6 handles the gears better than some of it's competitors 5 speeds and is still a refined transmission. On the test drive I took I didn't notice any problems with the transmission (not that I'm an expert or anything). I took it in stop and go city traffic as well as out on the interstate.
Again. The media seems to like to make people think anything old is bad. Yes, the 4 is an aged technology. But it's certainly not flawed. I've NEVER had a smoother shifting tranny then the 4T65-E in the G6. And it responds too. Yes, many say 5 and 6 speed transmissions would make better use of the power output of the engine, and a lower final drive ration would probably increase fuel economy nominally. As has been said, GM just finished developing a 5 speed auto with ford that is first debuting in the fusion, and will show up at GM in the saturn aura...eventually it will filter down into existing models, such as the G6...as least as an option. But don't underestimate the reliability and performance of the 4.

I'm a little concerned with it being a GM car as well. Not so much from the quality standpoint, but from a "support" standpoint. I know GM is having all kinds of problems right now with turning a profit and wonder if there's anyway that may have some kind of negative impact in the future. I'm also somewhat concerned about the quality of the car as well. I want to basically have the choice of keeping the car vs. getting a new one 7 years down the line vs. it making the decision for me by falling apart.

I've been reading these forums lately and I notice a lot of complaints. I realize though that the internet is the place for people to complain and people with problems are much, much more likely to post something about their problems than someone whos car runs great.
GM is not going to just shrivel up and collapse, that's for sure. Yes, they're going through serious financial troubles right now. But as the saying goes, things get worse before they get better. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. As the GMT-900s begin to hit showrooms, the solstice enters it's second year, the saturn sky and AURA come online, and the Lucerne begins to sell, people will return to GM. They neglected the customer's opinions for the longest time. They now see without customers, they're SOL. So things will slowly turn around. Certainly Mitsubishi owners need to worry about the "will they be around next week" debate more then a Pontiac buyer, that's for sure.

But yes, I have developed a feeling of significant negativity towards the G6 on this board...it's disheartening to say the least. I'm not discounting the concerns of those voicing them, nor saying the G6 is flawless. Of course it's not. No car is. I had a friend who will NEVER buy another Chrysler or Ford product ever again, based on their experiences with them. But they swear by GM. I know another person who refuses to buy anything but Toyota. Ask her to even look at another brand and she'll FIND something wrong with it. Some people have pre-conceived notions about brands, or models, that, despite the fact they buy a car, can't be shaken, and it taints their opinions. There's always a lemon out there. It's inevitable. My dad's 05 G6 sedan is just 2-3 weeks shy of 1 year old. He has NEVER had any warranty claims on it in that year. His only issue is with rattles in the panoramic roof. And they bug him, but not overwhelmingly. I showed him the posts on here regarding a recently released service bulletin, and he's going to have the dealer check into it next time.

And I also sense several people on here aren't as upset about the car, so much, as their dealer experiences. Finding the right dealer is crucial. In ANY brand, there are scum bags out there. Toyota owners seem to have more widespread problems with dealer experiences then others. Toyota dealers seem to be of the mindset their cars are bulletproof, and if you need anything other then routine maintenance, it must be your fault. When I had my Vibe, I'd visit the Toyota dealer for parts occasionally. At least, until I started to get treated like a piece of crap. Then I went back to MY dealer. And I should've gone there from the start. They key thing is, if you DO develop a problem, and the dealer you go to leaves that bad taste in your mouth, you need to find another dealer. Going to a dealer who treats you poorly, or simply doesn't care, is going to make your ownership experience miserable. Even if the car itself really doesn't cause major problems. Find the right dealer, and that can make all the difference.

Most of the reviews say the G6 it isn't quite up to par with it's competitors, although this seems to be due to the 4 speed transmission, iron pushrod engine, louder engine, gas mileage, louder interior, numb electric steering (moot on the GTP), and other minor (in my opinion) problems. Essentially, none of these problems that cause it to "lag behind" the competition really are a big deal to me.
Typical import-biased journalism. Not only do the domestics have to compete with greedy unions, sagging market share, and bashing from import owners, but the media is just as bad. GM's newest vehicles are by far the best they have EVER made. Cobalt. Solstice. G6. Lucerne. LaCrosse. CTS. DTS. STS. You get the jist. These cars are LIGHT YEARS ahead of models from 03 and even 04. Everything is different. The technological advancements are mind boggling. The build quality is top-notch. The G6 has won several awards, one of them being build quality. The standard in the media these days is, "if Toyota has it, and you don't, you're the loser." Yes. We use pushrod. Yes, we use 4 speeds. Yes, we use electrically assisted power steering. Yes, we use electronic throttles. So what. My engine RESPONDS when I hit the gas. The power SCREAMS. The shifts are FAST and SMOOTH. And I attained 34 mpg doing 75mph from New Jersey to Boston. Don't tell me my car is "lagging" behind the competition because it's DIFFERENT. The G6 isn't lagging in much. Maybe it should have been given more horsepower in the 3.5. But you know what. I'm coming from my last two cars - a Sunfire and a Vibe - having 140 and 130 hp, respectively. 201 is fricken amazing.

Don't let other people scare you out of buying this car if you know you want it. I learned that lesson after toiling for about 6 months over whether to go coupe or sedan. People told me the coupe was ugly to them, or the sedan make me look like an old man (i'm only 24 myself). In the end, I walked into the showroom, sat in both, played with the features, and decided the coupe was the right decision. And for the week or so while I waited for it to be delivered, i was scared, and regretting my decision, because people were still bashing it. But once i took delivery, and saw it all shiny and new, smelled that new car smell, and the best part -- when i turned heads at work, and on the highways -- all my regrets disappeared. Since the moment I took delivery I've been in love with my car...even the last 4 weeks, when i haven't had it, I still show pictures of it and talk about it as if i was proud of a child.

If I could do it over again, would I still have bought my GT coupe? Hell yeah.
 

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These are good replies. A for the gas mileage I don't know what the writers were getting, but take a look around this board and most people are getting above the EPA ratings, which themselves are pretty impressive for a car in this class.

Ragingfish and SCGA1 made good points about the motor. The transmission is rock solid. Yes it has been developed over the years, but when it shifts so well and is proven to last a long time I don't see it as being a problem. Personally, I love my G6 and I would rather have it over many other cars. Its all about your impressions of the car. I haven't had any issues with the car so I can't comment on the support. I don't think reliability should be a problem at all.

Oh and for the loudness issue I don't think they are correct either. The G6 is a very quiet car. In comparison, the newer Accords and Camrys that I have been in are noticeably louder. The engine in the G6 can barely be heard, at least in my 3.5, in fact I think there are many of us wanting exhausts to make it louder :) .
 

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Not so technically worded, and I'm not a "car enthusiast" by any means....

I've driven the cars that the G6 is supposed to compete with. My company car is a Honda Accord. On longer trips, I rent a car, and it's almost always a Nissan Altima. All seem to have about the same in the way of power under the hood and features inside the doors. Where the G6 stands out, to me, is in price, and in handling. It has a more sporty look and feel, and at my age, that's appealing.

Also, for what it's woth, the trips I take in the Accord and Altima are usually pretty long trips (6 hours on average) and at the end of every trip I feel as if I have been doing just that - sitting in a %^*# car seat for 6 hours. I just took the G6 on a trip that lasted 12 hours, all in one day. At the end of the trip, my buddy and I both agreed that we felt as if we'd simply went for an afternoon ride.

There's my two cents.
 

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Ancient..pffft... OHC technology came out FIRST!

Pushrods are more better. The only people who think different have their noses in the air so it doesn't really matter much what they 'believe' to be true. LOL
 

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SCGA1 said:
A DOHC can rev higher than a pushrod motor, but does not have the torque of a pushrod motor.
The new LS7 revs to 7100rpm. In fact the OHV engine can rev higher (i know people spinning close to 8,000rpm) there is just rarely a need to spin anything that high. Good info btw. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for all the replies guys, you really helped to assuage any concerns I had.

I have one more question, I don't know if anyone has an answer for it. I've seen the GXP photos from SEMA. I guess the GXP ended up being the GTP? Is there any chance the front and rear fascia from the GXP may make it to the GTP next year? Because that is seriously something I would consider waiting for, they look AWESOME!

As far as the gas mileage itself I'm not concerned. The EPA rating for city for the GTP is 18 mpg, I believe. Not only are people getting more than that, but my current car is a 4 cylinder '88 Isuzu Trooper (would definitely get another Isuzu if they made anything besides one model now, and if I had the money). I think it gets about 15 mpg highway, so even the GTP will be a huge step up mileage wise for me.

I think I've found a pretty good dealer. It's one of those no-haggle places and the actual salesperson I'm working with went to high school with me. So far he's been real helpful in getting me info, staying in touch with me. I'll probably be paying in the high $23k for a fully loaded GTP, before tax and everything else. That's their regular price, while a lot of dealerships can't get that low even with red tag and whatnot.

Anyway, I'm once again looking forward to getting my G6 in the next couple of weeks (I hope this project ends on time so I can be home by next weekend). I should have the money I want for the down payment I want once I get home and get my hands on the expense check I have waiting for me at the office. I'll be at the dealership within a day or two of getting home.

I'M PUMPED!
 

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A word on pushrods....

They are cheaper to manufacture: This benifits the consumer with more bang for the buck car with more features then the competition.

They are (Usually) more reliable due to their simplicity: OHC motors are more complex and have more parts. More parts means more parts that can possibly fail. Also OHC motors are dependant on all the parts working flawlessly for the motor to even run. I have seen old chevy Pushrod motors with tons of miles on them running on 4 cylinders out of 6 and other problems and they are still going.

Pushrod Motors are lighter and take up less space than a comperable OHC motor: Lighter = better performace Smaller = More displacement in a small package. EG. a 2.5L OHC will take up the same space as our 3.5L

Pushrods are better on gas overall: Yes this IS TRUE. Please investigate 2006 Corvette Z06. Only 500hp+ car to avoid a the gas guzzler tax. So much for a "Low Tech" motor claim.

OHC motors are a smoother than pushrods becuase of the laws of physics... Reciprocating mass in a Pushrod motor due to the rods moving and crank etc.. can make the engine more prone to vibration.

HOWEVER, With good motor mounts and vibration dampining this can be corrected and become a non-issue when comparing a comperable OHC motor.

(Side story... Had a friend riding in my G6 for the first time... We were going home on the highway and when we got there he said "wow that was a fast trip, How fast were you going?" I told him I was fdoing 130KM/H steady the whole way and the G6 was so smooth and quiet he thought we were going much slower. So as for refinement in imports and G6 is not refined that is BS of the first degree)

The PUSHROD MOTOR in the G6 is one of the points that made me decide to buy the G6. It sealed the deal.

Also..
When You purchase a GM product DO NOT GO TO THE CAR MAGAZINES. I know most of us here will be GM biased. I love all cars. GM does happen to be my favorite but I know the mags are biased.

One more thing.. the 4 speed tranny. Yes GM should have put a 5 but the difference an extra gear will make is minimal since the software controlling the 4 speed in the G6 is excellent at selecting the right gears and shifting smoothly. My frend has an Acura 3.2CL type s. 5 speed tranny. Tranny went at 80 000 KM's. Turns out a year later Honda recalled most of thir 5 speeds.

Moral of this... If You want reliability go with refined older technology that has been tried and tested.

P.S Long Live GM

P.S.S Bring back the CAMARO.
 

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branderson said:
Oh and for the loudness issue I don't think they are correct either. The G6 is a very quiet car. In comparison, the newer Accords and Camrys that I have been in are noticeably louder. The engine in the G6 can barely be heard, at least in my 3.5, in fact I think there are many of us wanting exhausts to make it louder :) .
I agree!

My 1.8L Vibe with it's "lovely" Toyota powertrain was loud as all hell...when the engine was exceptionally cold (i.e. parked outside overnight in the dead of winter) the thing was SO loud for the first few miles I had to turn the radio 3/4 of the way up to hear it. It was ugly. And that was a 4. The 6 in this thing makes almost no noise. My first test drive in one blew my mind with the almost non-existent cabin noise.

One time, I pulled into the gas station, couldn't figure out why I felt the slightest vibration in my car while fueling (remember, in NJ, we can't pump our own damn gas). When I went to start the car after the fill up, it wouldn't start. Turned out the damn thing was running the whole time! I was spooked! The engine was SO quiet, and almost no vibration at all...I had the engine on and didn't even realize it.

The only time this thing gets loud is when I floor it. And when you floor it, hearing it is half the rush...the other half is feeling it.

As has been said -- this thing is quiet when it needs to be, and loud when it should be.

Screw anyone who says otherwise!!!
 

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anth_97 said:
P.S.S Bring back the CAMARO.
U living under a rock? ? Some very interesting photos were released yesterday..GM was threatening lawsuits amoung other things.. turns out they are legit and WILL be at SEMA in January... ;)
 

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S8ER99 said:
In fact the OHV engine can rev higher (i know people spinning close to 8,000rpm) there is just rarely a need to spin anything that high.
Very true.

I've got an OHV pushrod motorcycle (one of my early 80's collectors) that redlines at 10,000rpm (HP peak is at 9,000rpm). I've pushed it to 11,000rpm (no rev limiter) several times and it doesn't seem to mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Noise isn't an issue. Engine was pretty quiet on my testdrive. It's nothing compared to my Trooper now.

Besides, I like a little feedback when I really give it some gas. I want to know the car is on.
 

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There we go. :) haha.. I was only going to spin to 6300rpm in my car.. but if I had upgraded valvetrain I wouldn't have been to worried about hitting 7K. :)
 

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In my opinion, the G6 does fall a bit short when compared to the competition. The pushrod engine isn't all that big of a deal, its still smooth and has loads of torque. The gas milage does appear to be pretty poor though. Using a 4 speed auto in this car is a big mistake. The performance/economy characterstics of the car could greatly benefit from 5+ speeds. My biggest concern would be the little things. Many people on this forum seem to think all cars have a few minor problems now and then. This is just not the case. There are cars out there that are near flawless. I'm sort of in the same boat as you. The G6 styling is so hot, and its such an appealing car that my heart says buy it, but with low resale, questionable quality, and some other little things that are missing, my brain says stay away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re-sale isn't an issue for me. I don't plan on trying to sell the car and get something new in 3 or 4 years. If I do, good for me, because that should mean I have a lot more money then I do now.

Also, there aren't many cars out there besides Toyota and Honda that are going to give you good resale value anyway. Even with those you are still getting way less than you should.

As for being near flawless I don't think you can call any car that. Even if say, an Accord runs great and has no problems you could say it should get better mileage or horsepower or something. There's no such thing as a flawless car. I'm not concerned with any of the "problems" listed by reviews because they aren't really problems. A louder engine (which is still really quiet) is not a problem, at least not to me.

I was only asking about the engine and transmission because I don't understand much about them from a technical aspect and how they could affect the performance/quality of the car. From my test drive and what people here have told me the only problem is that gas mileage could be improved (which again, is not a problem for me based on what I currently drive).

GM is certainly not quite in the league of Toyota or Honda on the likes of quality, but that doesn't mean they are bad either. I'm not expecting the car to run for 15 years. Like someone mentioned, the technology for the G6 may be "old," but in being old it's also refined and proven.

I was having second thoughts but based on what everyone has said here I'm really excited to get my G6. I just hope the GXP doesn't come out soon (if ever) at a price I could have afforded. But based on the fact that there seems to be no rumors or info on it coming out anytime soon I'm not worried about that either.
 
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