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i have a 2006 g6 2.4 vvt eco tech. my problem is i have no low end power at all the car has 60000 miles on it. i have not put plugs or wires into the car as it has iridium plugs and that seema way early for those to be junk and they look fine. i have cleaned the maf sensor. merging on the freeway is a challange and the car is just an over all dog but seems to power thru it. it also seems to be only a problem when there is a big load on the engine. hot days with the ac on and merging mostly. it has never misfired or had the check engine light come on. the check engine light has flashed at me while merging on the freeway but has never stayed on. i know most people think that when it flashes at you that meens a misfire. my understanding of a flashing check engine light is that the car is telling you right now its having a problem. the only code i get out of it is P0650 Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit Malfunction which tells you really nothing. its a junk code that should be linked to something else. but cant seem to get anything else to come up. im thinking it may need a new ignition control module? does this car have one or is it all in the bcm ? and ive also see that the cats like to get pluged on these cars. i really dont want to hack a hole in my exhaust to see if thats the problem is there any other way to check for a plugged cat? it also has never had the rotten egg smell to point me in that dirrection. i also dont want to pull the 02 out of it to open the path to throw another code if i do end up taking it in to the dealer. also how does the vvt work ? is there a sensor that changes the timing that may be messing up ?
 

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i have a 2006 g6 2.4 vvt eco tech. my problem is i have no low end power at all the car has 60000 miles on it. i have not put plugs or wires into the car as it has iridium plugs and that seema way early for those to be junk and they look fine. i have cleaned the maf sensor. merging on the freeway is a challange and the car is just an over all dog but seems to power thru it. it also seems to be only a problem when there is a big load on the engine. hot days with the ac on and merging mostly. it has never misfired or had the check engine light come on. the check engine light has flashed at me while merging on the freeway but has never stayed on. i know most people think that when it flashes at you that meens a misfire. my understanding of a flashing check engine light is that the car is telling you right now its having a problem. the only code i get out of it is P0650 Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit Malfunction which tells you really nothing. its a junk code that should be linked to something else. but cant seem to get anything else to come up. im thinking it may need a new ignition control module? does this car have one or is it all in the bcm ? and ive also see that the cats like to get pluged on these cars. i really dont want to hack a hole in my exhaust to see if thats the problem is there any other way to check for a plugged cat? it also has never had the rotten egg smell to point me in that dirrection. i also dont want to pull the 02 out of it to open the path to throw another code if i do end up taking it in to the dealer. also how does the vvt work ? is there a sensor that changes the timing that may be messing up ?
A flashing MIL is consistent with engine misfire. A higher engine load stresses the weak links in the chain. Do the basic stuff: first check the condition of plugs, coils & wires & go from there. If you can access a scan tool, look at the misfire data. It will tell you which cylinder/s is misfiring. An engine can be misfiring & not set a misfire DTC. Seen it many times.
It could, of course, also be a fuel supply problem. Possibly an injector is going pear-shaped.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
its a coil on plug set up. ill try the plugs but ive never heard of doing iridum plugs at 60000 maybe closer to 90000 now on platium plugs that time frame is a lot more realisitic. and i think i would get a consitant misfire if the plugs were the problem aswell as getting a p0300 that ive never had. it did misfire once but the tranny didnt want to shift and i belive the misfire came because of the rev limiter when it got close or past 6000rpms
 

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its a coil on plug set up. ill try the plugs but ive never heard of doing iridum plugs at 60000 maybe closer to 90000 now on platium plugs that time frame is a lot more realisitic. and i think i would get a consitant misfire if the plugs were the problem aswell as getting a p0300 that ive never had. it did misfire once but the tranny didnt want to shift and i belive the misfire came because of the rev limiter when it got close or past 6000rpms
I caught that you had COP & edited while you were posting. My bad. I would probably put new plugs somewhere near the bottom then of the list of things to do. First thing I'd do is look at the misfire data. That should give a big clue. Hopefully narrow it down to one cylinder. I use ScanXL with the GM enhanced plug-in on a laptop.
 

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I was doing some research on that P0650. Now I have to wonder if that is what's causing the intermittent flashing MIL issue. I just don't have an answer. I'll get back if I can find something. Does the MIL flashing ONLY occur under higher engine load? Try pushing it hard on a good hill & see if you can make it flash. So you have cleared the P0650 code & it's returned? How many times?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I was doing some research on that P0650. Now I have to wonder if that is what's causing the intermittent flashing MIL issue. I just don't have an answer. I'll get back if I can find something. Does the MIL flashing ONLY occur under higher engine load? Try pushing it hard on a good hill & see if you can make it flash. So you have cleared the P0650 code & it's returned? How many times?
the flashing has only occured in the high load situations its very intermitten its maybe only flashed 3 or 4 times. i had it on a tech 2 and when we cleared the code it came right back without even having the check engine light flash or come on again. i cant make it flash ... its only flashed when the cars lacking power almost to the point where it wants to die. when the problems worse then it usual is. i cant get the code to stay away.
 

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ive also thought the the voltage may be lacking to give the spark needed. but i went and had the battery tested it was fine. i have had the car not start on me twice but after i jumped it the car was fine and havent had a prob with that since. i wish the car had a voltage gauage i could watch. it is the original battery. i put a new air filter in and cleaned the maf sensor and put the new plugs in also put some fuel system cleaner into the car
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the check engine light does come on under key on situation and turns off like its sappose to. but from what i read on the p0650
When is the code detected?- An excessively high voltage is sent to ECM through the MIL circuit under the condition that calls for MIL light up.
- An excessively low voltage is sent to ECM through the MIL circuit under the condition that calls for MIL not to light up.
 

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If P0650 is set by itself and was the original vehicle concern, complete the current SI diagnostics. ECM replacement is not suggested for P0650 set by itself. ECMs returned and inspected by engineering have been found no trouble found. Most P0650 codes have been repaired by either a wiring or IPC repair.

this doesnt sound right for my situation the car deffinatly has an issue and this sounds to be pointing me into a ecm flash
 

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So you also have an intermittent no start condition. That definitely makes the cheese more binding. I don't know what a GM extended warranty goes for but you may want to consider it unless you're really at least a shade tree mechanic or know one. And you will absolutely need the service manual (paper about $150; DVD about $400). Just sayin'.

All or some of the issues you are having may be connected. I see you are adding posts while I compose this so some of this might not apply.


The possibilities for setting the P0650 are:


All apply to the MIL circuit:

ECM is bad-possibly a high resistance connector issue (may be as simple as cleaning & reseating the connector)
IPC is bad-possibly a high resistance connector issue
The ground control circuit wire is open or shorted
The MIL ignition voltage circuit is open or shorted

So what it amounts to is you can't rely on anything your MIL does right now.

From the '06 G6 SM:

Circuit/System Testing
Turn OFF the ignition.
Disconnect the engine control module (ECM).
Turn ON the ignition with the engine OFF.
⇒ If the MIL is still ON, test the MIL control circuit for a short to ground.

⇒ If the MIL control circuit tested OK and the MIL stayed ON, replace the IPC.

⇒ If the MIL control circuit tested OK and the MIL went out when the ECM was disconnected, replace the ECM.

Measure for 12 volts from the MIL ignition voltage circuit in the IPC harness connector to a ground.
⇒ If there is less than 12 volts, test the MIL ignition voltage circuit for an open, or a short to ground, and an open fuse.

Remove the fuse that supplies voltage to the MIL.
Measure for less than 1 volt from the MIL control circuit in the ECM harness connector to a good ground.
⇒ If there is more than 1 volt, test the MIL control circuit for a short to voltage.

Install the fuse that supplies voltage to the MIL.
The MIL should illuminate with a 3-amp fused jumper wire connected between the MIL control circuit in the ECM harness connector and a good ground.
⇒ If the MIL does not illuminate, test the MIL control circuit for an open or high resistance.

⇒ If the MIL control circuit tests OK, replace the IPC.

⇒ If the MIL does illuminate, but does not when commanded ON with a scan tool, replace the ECM.
 

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the flashing has only occured in the high load situations its very intermitten its maybe only flashed 3 or 4 times. i had it on a tech 2 and when we cleared the code it came right back without even having the check engine light flash or come on again. i cant make it flash ... its only flashed when the cars lacking power almost to the point where it wants to die. when the problems worse then it usual is. i cant get the code to stay away.
So if you could trust the MIL, that would indicate it's misfiring under load.
 

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ive also thought the the voltage may be lacking to give the spark needed. but i went and had the battery tested it was fine. i have had the car not start on me twice but after i jumped it the car was fine and havent had a prob with that since. i wish the car had a voltage gauage i could watch. it is the original battery. i put a new air filter in and cleaned the maf sensor and put the new plugs in also put some fuel system cleaner into the car
Cranks ok but no start?
 

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If P0650 is set by itself and was the original vehicle concern, complete the current SI diagnostics. ECM replacement is not suggested for P0650 set by itself. ECMs returned and inspected by engineering have been found no trouble found. Most P0650 codes have been repaired by either a wiring or IPC repair.
I don't know where you got this but it says: "Most P0650 codes have been repaired by either a wiring or IPC repair." By "IPC repair" he probably meant IPC replacement.
 

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You should try this potential fix for the ECM harness connector (can't believe I did not think of this first). You might want a pro to do this. If you damage the terminal you would have to replace the ECM.


Service Information 2006 Pontiac G6 | G6 (VIN Z) Service Manual | Document ID: 2335331
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#09-06-03-004B: Intermittent No Crank/No Start, No Module Communication, MIL, Warning Lights, Vehicle Messages or DTCs Set by Various Control Modules (Disconnect Affected Connector and Apply Dielectric Lubricant) - (Sep 1, 2009)


Subject: Intermittent No Crank/No Start, No Module Communication, MIL, Warning Lights, Vehicle Messages or DTCs Set by Various Control Modules (Disconnect Affected Connector and Apply Dielectric Lubricant)


Models: 2005-2010 GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (including Saturn)

2005-2010 HUMMER H2, H3

2005-2009 Saab 9-7X




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This bulletin is being revised to update the subject line and Condition information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-03-004A (Section 06 - Engine).


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Condition
Some customers may comment on any of the following conditions:

• An intermittent no crank/no start

• Intermittent malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illumination

• Intermittent service lamp illumination

• Intermittent service message(s) being displayed

Cause
This condition may be caused by a buildup of nonconductive insulating oxidized debris known as fretting corrosion, occurring between two electrical contact surfaces. This may be caused by any of the following conditions:

• Vibration

• Thermal cycling

• Poor connection/terminal retention

• Micro motion

• A connector, component or wiring harness not properly secured resulting in movement

On low current signal circuits this condition may cause high resistance, resulting in intermittent connections.

On high current power circuits this condition may cause permanent increases in the resistance and may cause a device to become inoperative.

Representative List of Control Modules
The following is only a representative list of control modules that may be affected by this condition and does not include every possible module for every vehicle.

• Blower Control Module

• Body Control Module (BCM)

• Communication Interface Module (CIM)

• Cooling Fan Control Module

• Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)

• Electronic Brake and Traction Control Module (EBTCM)

• Electronic Suspension Control (ESC) Module

• Engine Control Module (ECM)

• Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) Control Module

• Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)

• Powertrain Control Module (PCM)

• Remote Control Door Lock Receiver (RCDLR)

• Transmission Control Module (TCM)

Correction
Important: DO NOT replace the control module, wiring or component for the following reasons:

• The condition is intermittent and cannot be duplicated.

• The condition is present and by disconnecting/reconnecting the connector the condition can no longer be duplicated.


Use the following procedure to correct the conditions listed above.

Install a scan tool and perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle. Retrieve and record any existing history or current DTCs from all of the control modules (refer to SI).
⇒ If any DTC(s) are set, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle to identify the connector(s) of the control module/component which may be causing the condition (refer to SI).

⇒ If DTCs are not set, refer to Symptoms - Vehicle to identify the connector(s) of the control module/component which may be causing the condition (refer to SI).

When identified, use the appropriate DTC Diagnostics, Symptoms, Schematics, Component Connector End Views and Component Locator documents to locate and disconnect the affected harness connector(s) which are causing the condition.
Note: Fretting corrosion looks like little dark smudges on electrical terminals and appear where the actual electrical contact is being made. In less severe cases it may be unable to be seen or identified without the use of a magnifying glass.





Important: Use ONLY a clean nylon brush that is dedicated to the repair of the conditions in this bulletin.

DO NOT apply an excessive amount of dielectric lubricant to the connectors as hydrolock may result when attempting to mate the connectors.


With a one-inch nylon bristle brush, apply dielectric lubricant to both the module/component side and the harness side of the affected connector(s).
Reconnect the affected connector(s) and wipe away any excess lubricant that may be present.
Attempt to duplicate the condition by using the following information:
- DTC Diagnostic Procedure

- Circuit/System Description

- Conditions for Running the DTC

- Conditions for Setting the DTC

- Diagnostic Aids

- Circuit/System Verification

⇒ If the condition cannot be duplicated, the repair is complete.

⇒ If the condition can be duplicated, then follow the appropriate DTC, Symptom or Circuit/System Testing procedure (refer to SI).

Repair Order Documentation
Important: The following information MUST be documented on the repair order. Failure to do so may result in a chargeback.

• Customer vehicle condition.

• Was a Service Lamp or Service Message illuminated? If yes, specify which Service Lamp or Service Message.

• Was a DTC(s) set? If yes, specify which DTC(s) were set.

• After following the procedure contained within this bulletin, could the condition be duplicated?

⇒ If the condition was not duplicated, then document the affected module/component connector name and number on the repair order.

• If the condition was duplicated after the procedure contained within this bulletin was followed, and additional diagnosis led to the replacement of a module or component, the SI Document ID Number MUST be written on the repair order.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
im wasnt really saying that i had a no start condition. i was just thinking it was more of a dead battery issue... as it had just nothing at all. no start or crank at all and with no voltage gauge who knows. i hooked up the jump box and it fired right up. idk if it was just the next key cycle that took or if it was the jump. but ur info seems to make me want to point to the other dirrection. ur info will GREATLY help me! in the diaignostic testing. and i will try that first and ill let u know what happens. again thanks so much for ur help its greatly appreciated!
 

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im wasnt really saying that i had a no start condition. i was just thinking it was more of a dead battery issue... as it had just nothing at all. no start or crank at all
All your issues could potentially be caused by the fretting corrosion issue of the ECM terminal. It's worth a shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
All your issues could potentially be caused by the fretting corrosion issue of the ECM terminal. It's worth a shot.
i just went out and pulled the connectors off the bcm and ecm? there is a bigger one right in front of the battery with a big heat sinc on it im thinking thats the bcm with 3 connectors and one right below that, that is a lot smaller with only one connector would be the ecm? all the connections looked good didnt see any corrosion on any of the terminals
 

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Discussion Starter #20
btw i did take it to the local dealer thinking that they mayb could find or see something i didnt and would take a lil more time on the tech 2 and they told that there is nothing wrong with my car and didnt even mention anything about a p0650 that i knew was in the history!
 
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