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Just FYI, I'm sure most are aware, but with a FWD car with 200+ ft/lbs of TQ available as low as it is in V6 models (3.5 and 3.9), you're going to spin any tire.
 

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otcpharm said:
Some tires are simply provide more traction, or are more resistant to spinning, on wet pavement than others. The Continentals are some of the worst.
I'm purely aware of that, I've just read several threads simply stating "my tires spin off the line and they must be crap" or the like, and while I agree both the LS2s and Continentals, and just about any other OEM tire sucks, that even the best will spin off the line in a FWD car with this power in the wet, period. How much they spin, and how quickly they eventually hookup will differentiate the good ones from the bad ones.

I also beg to differ in the amount of torque available down low. While this is not a discussion about this, but about tires, the 3.5 and 3.9 both put 85% - 90% of their peek torque down slightly above 1000 rpm. The car's weight can mask this feeling and subsequently cause even more tire spin in an effort to move the heavier vehicle.

And let's not bring WOT into this, because the difference in tq-power between partial tip-in to full tip-in is minimal.
 

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S8ER99 said:
I will have to take your word for that.. ;)
All I'm saying is that the heavy G6 will be more difficult to move initially. And even at 1/2 throttle, your torque figure is still substantially high, high enough to break free if a friction inhibitor, like water, is present given the weight of the vehicle. How quickly the tire evacuates the water and bites to finally create movement would indicate how good of a tire it is, but it's still going to spin no matter how good it is, I guarantee it.
 

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S8ER99 said:
haha..sorry wasn't disputing everything you said... I was just refering to the last part.. I dont have any hard data to show what the percentage difference is WOT vs partial throttle so I was merely saying I will have to take your word for it. :)
I don't have any hard core either, but general rule of thumb is 1/4 = 60%, 1/2 = 75%, 3/4 = 90%...Though every car is different to some extent. I've had a couple cars that were easily 99%+ at 3/4, with only transmission changes/adjustments occuring at WOT (quicker kickdown) etc. My 04 goat would run within .5 sec (I should say less than .5 sec) of my WOT quarter mile times with the gas pedal blocked to approx. 3/4 throttle (long story, it was a bet...kinda like a "one hand tied behind my back" thing...)
 

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S8ER99 said:
The 04 Goat also had a traditional Throttle linkage. :) I thought this throttle by wire crap was more precise.
[hijack]
Yes, DBW sucks. The 05 GTO has it, and it's plagued with slow response and failures (and parts availability problems from AU). DBW needed a little more work before they put it into performance cars...
[/hijack]
 

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otcpharm said:
Why toss in a "yeah, but..." when it doesn't contribute anything except pointing out something that is blatantly obvious to everybody here?
Why? Because I got two PMs within 1 hour of each other (one here and one at ls1gto.com) from people with the potenzas asking my advice as to whether they should replace their tires and if they were any good because they "spun off the line in wet weather".

So it's apparently NOT blatantly obvious to everyone...
 

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otcpharm said:
I never carry over PM material into the board, so that's never a consideration when I post. Thanks for clearing it up.
I get PMs on LS!GTO all the time from people who have 3-4 posts at most, but have been registered for 6 months. I guess they just PM people and never post. The questions typically are questions that might get flamed, so I can understand some of the motivation.

It baffles the mind to think that ANYBODY would think they'd be able to dig up tires that WON'T spin on wet streets - regardless of what you drive.
I know alot of people that have been owners of "less-than-particularly-powerful" cars that may have moved up to their first "over 100 lbs/ft tq to-the-ground engine" and are surprised by the low-end tq.
 

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Smiles said:
New to the forum....Hello to you all,

Just a heads up on tires.....GM did not design there 17" Chromies, 17" Aluminum Painted, 18" Aluminum and 18" Ultras wheels for winter use. Go hit up your local dealer and pick up some medium grade bridges for $1000 and save you wheels! If you are rolling around on 16"....either hubs on steel wheels or 5 spokes you should be fine in winter. Do not put you performance tires through a winter or you will be paying for it on the end.....lets not forget about stone chips an scratches from sand and salt save those rims! I hope this helps.

P.S. Your G6 GTP and others require a special type of winter tire because of the bolt pattern so here in London you can only purchase them at your local dealership.....might be different on Toronto.....

Smiles
:confused: I think I made out about half the above.

Also, the bolt pattern has NOTHING to do with what tires will fit on the car, and there's no special winter tire because of the bolt pattern.

Additionally, any of the wheels will hold up well in the winter as long as you keep them clean.

And what are medium grade bridges, and how do they save my wheels? lol. :rolleyes:
 

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Smiles said:
Bridgestone tires.....bridges.....not a hard one to understand....well thats what we call them in the business.....and most ppl know about medium grade tires so ppl should understand that too......and yes they say all season unless its a G6 summer performance tire.....and yes they say MS on the side of the tire meaning mud and snow, but save your rims guys put on some winter wheels with a steel rim. MAN what an unwarm welcome!! In Canada you can only get winter wheels from certain places for a G6 and thats why I was talking about the bolt pattern so it DOES effect what tire you buy because there is not a lot to chose from and there are only certain places you can buy them!! And its still not a good idea to ride on chrome wheels all winter.....try to preserve the value of your car!! Dirt and Snow will beat them up esspecially if you do highway driving!! Do I need to get some pictures of damaged rims to prove it? Cause I will..........oh and miscreant did you want to write it in french? would that make it easier for you cause I can.....or I can bold the text or something.......

Have a good weekend guys,

Smiles
Well, maybe it's some lingo from canada, but I was "in the business" and to some extent still am, and never heard bridgestones called 'bridges' and also never defined a level of tire as 'mid grade' - there's mid-grade gas, yes...So perhaps it would have been better to write it in layman's terms for people who "aren't in the business" as probably most who read this aren't.

Also, I guess you could say that the bolt pattern reduces the amount of selection of winter wheels you can find, and subsequently limits the tire sizes that appropriately fit on those wheels, which subsequently limits the tire selection for winter. But just saying "Your G6 GTP and others require a special type of winter tire because of the bolt pattern" makes no sense. A special type of tire? because of bolt pattern? what "type" of tire would that be? Mid-grade :D ? Again, makes no sense as originally posted.

Additionally, you posted that GM didn't design our wheels for winter use - Last time I checked, GM engineers were in DETROIT, and are quite familiar with winter, which is why each wheel is painted (except for the polished 18" GTP wheel) or chromed. Yes, it would be great to hop out and pick up an extra set of wheels and tires for winter, but not everyone is willing to do that, it may not be worth it to them, saving the stock wheels like that.

The problem with your first post, for the most part, was the lack of clarification - the supposed "in the business" speak. Next time take the time to speak in layman's terms with clarification.
 

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Smiles said:
We can debate about this for hours miscreant, but unfortunately I dont have the time! If you can't understand what I am saying thats to bad cause you missing out. Esspecially if you dont understand what med. grade tires are....if you were in the business at all you WOULD know what that is! Also having limited selection of tires because of bolt patterns means you will have to buy only a certain wheel because there arent many available meaning they will be a special purchase! Therefore that is what I meant by a special winter tire! Good enough clarification?? Or should I elaborate more? Or maybe use only one syllables word for you? If that makes it easier I can.......I know you can make out what I have said in my first post now that youve proally read it a few times and things are starting to make sense.....try using the old brain its there for a reason or maybe research what I am talking about insteading of trying to put me down! Its not apprecaited at all......is that how you get a boost in self esteem? put ppl down? try to make the new guy to the forum look bad?

Smiles
Smiles, whose resorting to insults now? Not once did I directly insult you with such items as the bolded areas above. I simply was pointing out inaccuracies in your first post, which still stand. I never attacked you personally, only your posts.

In the first post you said they would need a special TYPE of tire. There's not special TYPE of tire needed. There "may" be a special size of tire needed (read below though), but certainly not a special TYPE of winter tire.

Secondly, regardless of what the bolt pattern is, it does not limit the winter tire selection. The problem is finding the WHEELS, once the WHEELS are found, there are PLENTY of tires in the sizes needed. Wheels are only 16" or 17", or 18", etc. There are TONS of tires for 16" and 17" wheels, and plenty for 18". The bolt pattern of the wheel means nothing as to what tires will then mount on them - only wheel diameter and wheel width matter. So to say that the bolt pattern limits the TYPE, SIZE, or AVAILABILITY of tires is not true. If you find 16" wheels, then you can put 16" tires on it (225/60R16 or 215/65R16 for GTP, which are two of the most POPULAR tire sizes around), of any kind you want. If you can find 17" wheels, then you can put 17" tires on it, etc. So the bolt pattern limits the wheels you can find, NOT the tires.

Mid grade, well to each his own. I'm sure you can call anything product-wise as mid grade or low grade or high grade, but since tires have specific purposes, mid grade doesn't describe the ability or performance of a tire. What is a "mid grade" tire? Good wear? Good wet performance? Good dry performance? H speed rated? The term "mid-grade" does not impart any information as to what the tire actually is. Now making a comment like a good "mid-grade" touring tire, or good "mid-grade" passenger tire, or good "mid-grade" performance tire, well, that gives a little more information, but the information it gives is mostly imparted by the tire's use-descriptor, and not the "mid-grade" part, since one person's "mid-grade" may be another person's low grade.

So you can continue to make personal insults, that is fine. But your initial post didn't make sense and was inaccurate, which to someone with limited knowledge, it helps little. I can just see someone walking into the local Goodyear and saying "I read on the internet that my bolt pattern is weird, so do you have the special type of winter tire I need?" - The guy behind the counter would be like "what???" and then that person would say "well I need some mid-grade tires" and the guy behind the counter would be like..."Well, what kind of tire do you need, winter or all-season or performance, or do you want one with long treadlife or one with good dry performance? Mid-grade doesn't tell me much at all..."
 

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S8ER99 said:
No... you are not speaking clearly enough. We understand these are not 360 Triple A Z rated tires .. not a problem. Mid grade? Sure...

The tire itself will fit on any 16 inch rim provided its for a 16 inch tire ..regardless of bolt pattern.
:D
 

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Robyn P said:
"Real men wear Pink? No - real men (and women) wear camoflage, sleep in ditches dug in the sand, eat MREs, and carry US issued weapons..."

Miscreant,
Are you in the military? You seem to have military approach when typing. Not meaning it in a bad way, you seem just very stern in your typing. You also seem to know a whole lot more than the rest of us, which is not a bad thing, considering if I went in to buy tires I would have no clue what I needed, other than tires. :p Always remember different people take things different ways, what may not offend you or me, may offend someone else. :)
[hijack]
Yes, previous service. 3rd Combat Comm, USAF, and 179th Airlift Wing, OHANG.
[/hijack]
 

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Smiles said:
Special meaning limited availablility....I know a 16" is a 16"......a bolt pattern is a bolt pattern....its just limited selection here in the forest city (this is a fact...meaning you can only purchase them in specific locations e.g. a gm dealership) I think thats pretty specail....
I'm not trying to rip you, I'm only pointing out inaccuracies.

So you can only purchase tires or wheels at a GM dealership in the forest city? Again, I'm not sure what you are complaining about, the wheels or the tires? If you can purchase a 16" wheel (which I believe we have determined will not fit on the GT/GTP), then you can purchase any 16" tire. Any Bridgestone, Michelin, Kuhmo, Nitto, Pirelli, Goodyear, etc will fit on a 16" wheel. Now if you are saying the wheels are special, then yes, the 5x110mm bolt pattern does limit wheels, but you said special "tires" not special wheels...

Now if for some reason you don't have any tire stores in forest city other than a GM dealership, then that's fine, but that's not the way it is in the US or most places - heck, you have the internet, so you don't even need anyone around you except a road for UPS to drive up to your house and drop stuff off to.
 

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Wannahavegtpcoupe said:
I have 18 inch eagle LS tires on my GTP and find they don't have as much traction in snow as I would like. Anybody that has already switched to snow tires and steel rims that could post the info on what they bought would be appreciated. On the weekend I tried to climb a small snow covered hill (5 inches of snow) to get out of a driveway and for a while I thought I might not make it as the car started to slide sideways on the front end. I realize that the rims will not be 18 inch rims.
You'll need 17" wheels at minimum from what we have determined so far.

Tirerack has some 17" wheels for under $100 each, and you can have some 17" Winterforce snows (225/55R17 @ $79) mounted on them for winter.
 

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SCGA1 said:
I will leave these tires on for the winter.
You're very brave. The RE050As absolutely suck in winter. It will be like driving on slicks, just FYI.
 

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SCGA1 said:
I live right off a major road that is always plowed early. It should be interesting though.
Keep in mind that one of the main reasons it sucks is the cold weather/temps makes the tire very slippery, even without snow. Below 45-50 degree, "summer only" tires start to get real slippery.
 

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G6Action said:
:bash: now BOYS......if you can't play nicely, you will both be sent to the corner for a 'TIME OUT'!

but for now, both of you 'GO TO YOUR ROOMS' and NO DINNER for either of you! and NO, you can't watch South Park either!!!!

papaw
:( Ah, man...

FWIW, I only give smileys to those that are too childish to take criticism...
 
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